Queen Bee

[thingisimhere]

DD (13) is dealing with a classic "queen bee" situation. Unfortunately, her best friend recently moved away, leaving a gap in her friendship group. DD is generally well liked and gets on with most people, but a new girl has joined the group who seems very focused on popularity, social hierarchy, and maintaining her status. She frequently bad-mouths girls she sees as a threat and thrives on creating drama.

The girl has developed a reputation for "stealing friends" not because she genuinely wants to build meaningful friendships, but because she wants to prevent certain girls from having close friendships of their own. She goes after friendships for strategic reasons, creating divisions within the group and isolating those she views as competition including my dd 😢

Any ideas how dd can navigate this? Most of the group are also in the same dance school, which dd adores. She is worried queen bee will push her out. Leaving the group is not an option. Dd rubs along fine with most and is annoyed and stressed that QB is undermining her efforts to befriend some lovely girls that are at the periphery of the group. The girl seems very hyped up a lot of the time, just constantly scheming and trying to manipulate everyone.

Is there any way to break queen bee's 'spell'?

For a start, I'd calm right down with the 'Queen Bee' stuff and the melodramatic language. It recasts ordinary life in the mould of US high school TV dramas and gives a 13 year old girl way too much power. No one has any social power unless they're awarded it by other people, and no one can 'steal' your friends unless they want to be 'stolen'. It's like going crazy about the Other Woman when it's your spouse who chose to shag her in the photocopy room.

Stay out of it. Teenage friendship groups change and it’s how kids learn to navigate social stuff. Listen to her if she needs to vent but let her figure it out.

You are assigning a lot assumptions to the behaviour of a 13 year old girl who has just joined the school as a “new girl” and is presumably also trying to navigate long standing social structures.

Rather than demonising this other girl, have your DD focus on building her own friendships.

No one can “steal” friends.

And changing friendship groups is absolutely possible.

Spot on. Please don't feed your paranoia to your child. No 13 year old is a scheming evil mastermind - they are a child, doing what children do. That can lead to drama depending on the personalities involved, but IME it's often the paranoid ones, the ones who believe everyone is 'stealing' friends that are the real problem.

If something specific happens, help her to think through how to deal with it in a sensible way. Before then, encourage her to carry on with life without constantly looking over her shoulder for perceived threats.

I wish you were right. No one is demonising and queen bee is simply a term for girls who try to rule social groups in a mean and manipulative manner. The girl lies, excludes, manipulates.

No one can “steal” friends.

Hence the inverted commas. Yes, this happens.

Ok

Your post is rather melodramatic to be fair😂

Devils's advocate advice received. Does anyone have any actual advice on what dd can do around this girl? She is making her life miserable. New girl join after Christmas, new in the greater scheme of things but long enough for her to have done real damage to some of the girls' self esteem. It is borderline bullying by ostracising.

Your daughter should work on being friendly to everyone and not be too hung up on having a ‘best’ friend or group.

Can she join any other groups, dance or not, and she might be less reliant on things going well at her current group?

Is lunch and break time an issue?

Ok, if there are lies and manipulations then either:

1. Deal with them head on, in person, raise the issue of the lie and put the record straight. Can be calm and polite, doesn't need to be dramatic.

2. step away from the drama. Remain friends with whomever she likes and just keep away from the new girl. Remain polite and civil in her presence and absolutely refuse to engage in gossip in private.

3. the other option is just to quietly move away from the group and into another. My own DD did this at about the same age. No drama, no fall outs. She didn’t like the behaviour of the group so gradually eased away.

I really disagree that people can be stolen or even “stolen”. If my friend stops being friends with me because someone else told them to then they are pretty spineless and not worthy of my time. There is always someone else to talk to.

My advice and I do recognise versions of the dynamic you are speak about, is for your DD to start focusing on girls she has a good bond with and stuff in common with and then have some sleep overs and hang out sessions outside of school just with them to forge the bonds. At that age my younger DD had a tonne of pretty problematic group friendship dynamics and eventually when one group blew up she was far more choosey with friends.

The girl who she walked away from (let’s say similar to your queen bee) tried a few bullying tactics which I primed DD not to rise too at all and eventually she (the other girl) just drifted quietly away after pissing off other members of the original group with her continued behaviour.

I would say I’ve heard of 3/4 similar group blow ups on the periphery of DDs year group since then DD is now 17 and DD has always stayed a mile away so she really learned a lot from this experience. Ironically now the child DD had problems with years ago is back on the edge of DDs friendship group, ie better friends with other girls than she is with DD, but my DD gets along fine with her at this level because they both have matured.

Get to know her better rather than seeing her as a threat?

I think your attitude sounds just as problematic to your daughter as this girl could be.

My advice to your daughter would always be to not be drawn into any dynamics she doesn't want to be a part of and pursue friendships outside of anyone else's sphere. It's perfectly possible for her to be friends with other girls and those other girls to also be friends with the 'Queen Bee' (awful phrase) without it affecting anything.

It's only if you see friendship as an all or nothing phenomenon you'd think otherwise.

You sound way too involved in your daughter's friendship dynamics. She isn't being actively bullied by the sounds of it, and labelling this new girl as Queen Bee makes her seem scary and unapproachable. Did you have problems maintaining friendships in your early teens? I'm wondering if there's some projection going on here.

@LaPerruque Couldn't disagree more, this is definitely a dynamic we see happen all the time in real life. You might be right that nobody can have social power unless they're awarded it by others, but some people just seem to be magnetic and have people following them around. I see it in my social group in my 30s, and it exists in social groups of all ages and probably genders.

@thingisimhere Unfortunately I think you just have to let it play out. Is QB in the dance class? If not, that's great. How is she undermining DD's efforts to make friends though? If she's badmouthing her unfairly then escalate it through the school as bullying. If it's not at that stage, definitely encourage DD not to play into the drama and keep her head down. It is really hard though, I went through something similar at 13 - was excluded from my core group of friends because of some girl (who I still can't stand) and honestly socially I never really recovered. What would have helped is having a mum who listened to the drama and didn't judge or minimise or brush it off, but helped me keep it in perspective and encouraged healthier friendships.

i know exactly the type OP, it’s a pain in the arse. No real advice just wanted you to read a response that isn’t pretending what you’re saying isn’t bang on 😂

I am astounded at some of the replies, I have friends for over 40 years. I do not refer to queen bee as QB to dd, obviously. It's a pretty recognisable dynamic of relational aggression. I am probably one of the less over involved mums you can find. The dynamic is stressing dd and she is not as happy and confident as she used to be before these dramatic antics started. queen bees and wannabes is one of the better books on raising girls. Best to get past semantics and focus on the behaviour and dynamic. Alienating girls form friends through nasty gossip, going in all friendly with girls she is not actually into (she says so herself) to make them side with her. Maybe the friendship group will implode and this is part of the sad process but dd is not at all like this girl and finds it bewildering at times. She's gone from socially confident to somewhat insecure and it's to do with the drama, fall outs, restlessness in the group and the lies. I'd say it is borderline bullying.

The thing is, you're only getting the narrative from your DD, therefore completely biased. For all you know, the other girl considers ger the queen bee of the group

You need to let your DD navigate it herself. If you want to help her, all you can do is encourage her to be open minded about the situation and be a good role model. Be kind, stay away from competition.

OK, well, if it is bullying, and your daughter is being bullied, then raise it with the school the same way you would if someone was menacing her physically.

Genuine question, what is my attitude coming across as? I’m thinking about my DD’s situation and wondering how she can improve things for herself as she feels quite stuck. I’ve described what the girl does as factually as I can.

I’ve seen this type of behaviour / personality before, but neither my DC nor I have actually been on the receiving end. I was hoping some posters with older DC, or who have experienced something similar, might have some advice.

3/4 of the group are in the same form and some of them including QB are doing dance together.

Why can’t she leave the group and make new friends? Is she at a very tiny school and there are no other kids? If not then she needs to try and speak to new people, she is only 13, friendship groups change. There were some horrid girls at my school as a teenager, you just ignore them and don’t get involved. However, you as her mother also need to not get involved. Tell your daughter to speak to other people and not engage in this behaviour, otherwise she could be doing it for the next five years. And stop fanning the flames and making her feel worse.

@SaskiaWatkins
And stop fanning the flames and making her feel worse.
Fur sure. Tell me how I'm fanning the flames and making her feel worse please? I must be missing something.

If you are speaking to her in the same way you are here, then yes you will be increasing her anxiety about the situation.

But more importantly, how come she can’t change her friend group?

@thingisimhere of course that dynamic exists and it is well documented and comes up again and again here in adult relationships.

This child is trying on that relational style as children do as they learn and grow but it is a pretty toxic experience for those around her.

I’m surprised at the responses you are getting too but sometimes posts on MN go that way.

I'd stop the highly misogynistic 'Queen Bee' bollocks and remind your DD that unless the girl is kidnapping people, friends can't be 'stolen'.

The rest will work itself out if you try to calm down about it.

I’m surprised at the responses you are getting too but sometimes posts on MN go that way.

Thanks. I'll leave it here and will ask my mum what she thinks 😂she's pretty wise and clued in.

It's odd when posters try to catch you out but haven't even RTFT. Not helpful, but it was worth a try.