White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

This is true In a lot of circumstances.

My DHs extended maternal family are exactly this. He vividly remembers his grandfather seeing him reading and saying 'what good will that do you!?' and similar comments about leaving for school on time, exams etc. like the parents the book Matilda.

Weirdly it's an attitude that has even carried on into the next generation. His mother (who was the first in her very large family to go to university) is incredible negative about anything that would 'better' yourself and picks holes in everything. She never once praised him despite him getting the most GCSEs in his year group, criticised his degree choice etc.

And this that's is coming from someone who got married young, decided she wanted something else and left with her two babies to go and get a degree. Its an attitude that's so ingrained. Baffling.

The way the Left is going at it, it is totally a vendetta.

It is not fairly repairing the mistakes of the past, as much as taking the perceived "oppressers" a peg or two or five, as the PP demonstrates by talking about taking away ppl's "hegemony".

It is punishment, it is self-hatred, it is revenge, it is not justice, nor fairness.

if you look deeper it clearly shows that some races nationalities do better and quite frankly it’s parental involvement. I’m of Chinese origin and there is no way kids misbehave like white children do. My DS is mixed and I was not as strict as my parents but I was much stricter than DS friends.

I personally don’t like DEI initiatives, there was a time when they were needed. There is still racism but it is not going to stop it.

And to add, the logic of "as long as white supremacy (or whatever) has been dismantled a bit further, does not really matter if the wrong white person has been targeted, it s still for the greater good"

It is exactly the same logic that says "the ppl of village A have been done harm by ppl from village B, so the men of B can rape one of their girls, doesn't really repair things or punish the real culprits, but it will be justice anyway."

Vendetta. Vengeance. Retribution.
Not justice or systemic reparation or whatever bs you try to drape it with.

But then explain why this only impacts boys?

You can think what you like; it’s just an anecdote containing some personal observations. I do think this sort of thing is probably pushing an increasing number of people in Sarah Pochin’s direction. Reform and Restore are not for me, but where I would most certainly have described myself as being of the Left a decade ago (I was a Lib Dem member at one point), I am definitely starting to veer rightwards - quite liking the look of Kemi Badenoch at the moment.

What do we want to see happen here?

So the issues: White boys from non working families, who think working is for mugs, living in an area where any work available is likely cash in hand, precarious or public sector.

We want these boys to be able to access what? A local job? A local apprenticeship? University?

A local job - they live in Blackpool, can't afford to learn to drive so are stuck with casual work, if any. Casual work doesn't actually make their life any better than no work at all - still living with family and/or friends in Blackpool.

A local apprenticeship - again what is the availability? Middle class parents are encouraging their children to go into apprenticeships - and they can facilitate this through funding driving lessons, funding a car so their child have a wider area to look for this. Usually has a day at college - can they get there? Does it cost them a lot of money to get there? If they're sitting in class with middle class kids who outperform them (again) they lose hope - who is going to hire them over the well spoken, well presented, well backed kid whose parents will move mountains to get them in with people they know.

University - perceived as 'not for them'. Massive fear of the debt. They are unklikely to be able to afford to visit, likely to need to work alongside to survive - but they don't know anyone in this area so struggle to get a part time job. Parents cannot and will not top them up, don't really understand why they are going and can be negative about their prospects. Even when they manage and do well, graduate jobs have become largely 'who you know' rather than what you know - and they and their parents don't know anyone in the graduate world. So they end up with a degree certificate, a mountain of debt and the feeling that it was all a con - which they will pass on to their own children.

There just aren't the jobs available any more - not for any of us - and this is going to get better. If there aren't jobs then we need to ask what is the purpose of advanced education.

You're just being silly at this point. I'm after reasoned debate, not a mishmash of whatever your algorithms have served you up today.

Unfounded racism is pushing people towards Reform and Restore? I agree. We're all equipped with a brain; it's a shame not everyone uses it for its intended purpose.

I think white males are now days at a disadvantage. I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview" or "For this position there are grants available for females only". Now the grants thing is huge as the ability to find grants for funding your research is a major factor in getting the job.....

It seems to me that the white lads of today are the ones paying for the past privilege of the white lads from years gone by.

Thanks for the patronising and the assumption that everyone who disagrees with you has been brainwashed. Of course it has to be so.

Sorry it hurts your precious values and sense of moral superiority so much you cannot even bear thinking about it, not rare amongst the "progressive".

But indiscriminately punishing a group for the mistakes of their ancestors or the actions of some of their members is NOT justice.

I would say at least 50% if the job adverts in my field say things like "If you are from a minority group we garentee you an interview"

Jesus where do people get this shit from.

To that I’d say ‘when you’re so used to supremacy, equality feels like oppression’

You're just not very articulate, sorry. No need to further respond.

Yes I fully understand that. I come from a so called 'working class' background...My parents were /are hardworking and intelligent but neither went to university. They wanted my brother and I to go so they sacrificed quite a lot to send us. But we went in the 90's when we didn't pay tuition fees. The whole British class system is messed up anyway. I have no idea what 'class' I am. I'm a single mum with a good job, a mortgage and a university degree. Some people would say I'm working class, some would say I'm middle class.

I work in education and am typically pretty left leaning in my views. However a very noticeable (to me) representational issue is in our 6th form area. We have a display of prospectuses and open day posters for over 40 UK universities . Only 2 of those prospectuses or posters have an obviously white young man on them, and a handful with white females. The rest BAME young people.
To a middle class white boy, being pushed by parents, this lack of representation may not matter. However I do feel for a working class white boy, already facing barriers and perhaps wavering on whether higher education is, 'for people like him' , it will be another hurdle.

And its intended purpose is…? To agree with you and avoid any kind of ‘wrongthink’ presumably?

I suppose we will just need to wait and see how this all plays out.

Agreed but a lot of those jobs don’t exist anymore.

i think that’s part of the issue- a generation of “would be” builders went into IT, and then the demand was so low for building trade apprenticeships the market responded and stopped offering them. It wasn’t noticed for decades thanks to immigration, mainly from Eastern Europe.

now we won’t accept immigrants anymore, we’ve realised we don’t have a workforce who can fill the gaps they left.

Are we seriously arguing that the white male is underrepresented in terms of academic success? And that’s the driver?

come off it

As much as you would like to (nice display of authoritarianism and censorship), you don’t get to gatekeep this thread or my posts, thanks for showing your colours.

I stand by what I said. Deal with it.

I am pleased to see that some thought is being given to white working class needs. I am not wholly sure about the strategy though. I would like to see a focus on mentoring for working class kids and a series of specific programmes to raise performance.

I agree with you but I do think it’s worth raising we’re talking about educational access and achievement. A job isn’t the only, even arguably even the most important outcome of education.

all we’ve spoken about in this thread is employment- but having an educated population is worth far more than just jobs

Why? Do representation and ‘If You Can’t See It, You Can’t Be It’ only work one way?

Also, we are discussing white working class boys specifically, not ‘the white make’. There are undoubtedly barriers to this group and they are multi-faceted.

There is no shame in having a trade; currently they out earn most graduates.
Im firmly working class, my DD is about to go into her final year at Glasgow Uni and has an internship at the Foreign Office for the summer, our background or school has not held her back.
I think the obsession with uni, especially on MN is appalling; not every child is academic, but could excel in a trade.

Same. DD is the only white British child in her 11+ group. Others are of Asian, African or eastern European descent. Yet her primary school is 80- 90% white British. The demographics of those trying for the 11+ definitely do not represent the make up of the area as a whole.

Listening to DD talk to her friends about what they want to do when older was eye opening. Those with professional 'middle class' parents all had aspirational goals - Doctor, teacher, wildlife photographer, athlete, zoologist. Those with parents working in low paid unskilled roles or not working said 'hairdresser, beautician, influencer'. The ability level of these girls in no way related to their aspiration, the sole determiner seemed to be their parents job and expectations.