White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

Good for your mum getting to that level. She can take it easy now she's earned it.

@SheMon

Peaking at 67k is a lot though for a lot of people. My mum grew up in children’s homes. She had every barrier known to the sun. She wasn’t even from the working classes…. more like the under classes. I’m very proud of her.

She may not have earnt 150k in a big 4, but my god did she love her career and made a HUGE amount of difference in people’s lives. Shaped a whole service within our city. She was very rich, in many ways. She will miss her work.

This thread is also about working class kids by the way. There’s plenty of threads discussing 6 figures on mumsnet.

I was just about to post that! It's also distasteful to be boasting about high salaries in the NHS @Neurodiversitydoctor this is about white boys who won't get a sniff at that kind of tax payers' money. They are written off before they even leave school.

But 67K isn't close to the top of band 8
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates

@BurnoutBee nice to hear stories like your mum's. Seems her priorities weren't of a financial nature.

@LuckyHazelFox

Thank you 😊

@Neurodiversitydoctor

I can see it isn’t the top of band 8. That still doesn’t invalidate the work she did. She decided to retire. She had worked in many roles over the years in our local trust as a MH nurse. She was one of the first nurses to be seconded in our trust for the bursary. She had originally started as a ward cleaner, then nursing assistant and so forth.

My point still stands. She had a fulfilling career in the NHS. “Peaking at 67k” was still a huge success and feat for her in the context of her own background and environment.

She was and is a success story.

Yes this was my experience growing up (wcw woman) very few from my school went to uni an nd it was only promoted to the few top students in the school, when I suggested it to my parents I was told no it’s not for you. I finally got my degree at 35! Both my DDs went to uni, they had a fantastic experience and growth for going but didn’t necessarily need it for their careers. I just wish it hadn’t saddled them with so much debt.

Wow - that is a fantastic progression. Humility shown throughout x she must be such an inspiration to others.

But we’re comparing the millionaire brickies with all the oxbridge graduates we know who work in Tesco for min wage aren’t we?

you know, All the common situations

I agree with this. I’m getting quite fatigued with the “everyone needs to get a trade” argument.

Its great that trades are getting the recognition they deserve and its obvious that not everyone is cut out for university.

But its become a suggested panacea to every problem in society and education that everyone should become a plumber or a sparky. It just isn’t that simple. I’m nervous of this argument:

First, just as university isn’t for everyone, neither are trades. I would have been hopeless at anything like this. Also if we keep training everyone to be a plumber or an electrician we are going to have exactly the same issue we have now with white collar work but in reverse: too many plumbers and sparkies and not enough people in vocations where tertiary education is needed. Leaving aside the “bullshit jobs” cliches there are many socially important roles which require degrees.

Devaluing careers which require thinking is dangerous: there is still an important place in our society for people who are trained to be thinkers and strategic problem solvers. A society where the vast majority work in vocational roles is not one that is wrell equipped to innovate.

Possibly most importantly, it worries me that we seem to be arguing for a carve-out for the “white working class” (which we still have not defined). Success in life is partly about money but its also about power and effecting change. If we are telling a generation of people that they are only suitable for vocational work and shouldn’t try to do anything else we are sending a poor signal that we value them.

There should be an encouragement that spans home and school for all children of all backgrounds that education matters.

The radio was saying that many WC pupils don’t have WC teachers so don’t see relatable role models whilst at school.

But how do you get WC background teachers into schools if few have gone to university?

(on a side note our 8 year olds would have lost much of their childhood if they had thought about uni aged 8. They were busy being 8. They are GCSE/A’level now it’s all fine they are still taking it one step at a time)

@Backedoffhackedoff

All I stated was that my brother - who is a plasterer still out earned my mum, despite her having a degree etc and “peaking” at a rubbish old 67k lol.

I have a 16 year old boy myself right now who fits the white, working class bracket. He will not be going into a trade, as practically he isn’t great. Trades are a good option for many, but I’m not keen on the pub/alcohol culture after work that often goes with them. That’s what I’ve noticed in men and associates who went into them.

He is on track for some great GCSEs anyway. (My original point was, I think the value of education starts at home). He still does receive FSM (although my younger ones don’t as they weren’t eligible) . I guess my mum made us all believe progression was and is possible.

That is amazing and no one goes into the NHS for the reddies. The other problem with public sector careers is that it is all PAYE- world's smallest violin and all that but most GPs retire before 60 due to the tax on their pension pots. Not a problem a successful builder will ever have.

Trades are not high earning roles. Neither are nurses, teachers or social workers if we are telling children all that matters is money we need to be honest about this.

accountancy is a vocational career. I rarely see this suggested for white working class boys

I never understand this. Teaching might require a degree but imo is a firmly working class job. Low pay, no barriers to entry, no class snobbery in the recruitment system.

@Backedoffhackedoff

My 16 year old is down to the final 10 from 300 applications at our local council for a HR apprenticeship 🤞. Second interview pending for two positions.

He has done well to get this far, although I did need to remind him we say “yes im okay thank you” in an interview, when we are asked how we are, and not “yeah sound”. 😂

There was a finance one going also, although he didn’t apply for that one. Nevertheless, even if he doesn’t get it, having a panel intervene at 16 is still good exposure/experience. He is on track for some good results judging from his mocks.

My brother does earn very well as a plasterer. He employs his own labourers now. He is financially the one that did the best. Originally, all the women in my family went into hair and beauty, caring, nursery work etc. We all had children in our late teens and early 20s. Many retrained into social work and nursing etc, after some life experience.

Just as an aside boys can do nursing too- but everyone needs maths GCSE to get onto the apprenticeship- we need more male nurses.

@Backedoffhackedoff

Having worked in schools for years, I still categorise teachers firmly as middle class. They are very educated on the whole, they tend to come from families who valued education, and their values certainly tick the boxes. I do love a good WC teacher though, one that’s done good ….. I can sniff them out very quickly. We tend to be friends 😂.

I always thought teaching was a middle class job??
And on that note was unsure how getting more working class teachers as role models would work when it’s de facto a middle class job ?

I’m glad someone agrees!! What 8 year old is thinking about uni ! I’ve certainly never met one!

And before someone says middle class/indian/Chinese kids do, plenty of different ethnicities and classes at my son’s school I’m yet to come across a kid that knows what uni is. Even the most pushiest of parents know it’s one step at a time.

People seem to be saying by virtue of being employed as a teacher you automatically “become” middle class which is rubbish and as you say, defeats the whole point of representation

Giving them a trade is a start. We've already had a TA writing them off as unteachable. There isn't going to suddenly be an influx of new tradesmen. Not only that, its marketplace is one that's always in demand for work.They still have the opportunity to learn while they earn and retake their Maths and English. They just need more praise while they are on their journey AND not to keep comparing them to academically minded kids. I've seen some lecturers who are just phoning in their jobs. Awful.

Hard agree. There is a misguided belief that trades don’t earn. Bright tradies with anmbitions absolutely do. My dad was a roofer who left school at 14. Sent me to private school and I’m a city lawyer. He worked harder than me physically (although shorter hours!) but other than my house is bigger than the one I grew up in I would say quality of life was better. We definitely had more foreign holidays than my children do. He died in his 80’s in relatively good health and was fit from climbing up and down those ladders. He was a clever man though and was very put out that people looked down on him. So I was pushed into education and told to be a doctor or a lawyer. I’m grateful for that but am telling my privately educated sons about all career paths. We had an extension done recently - our builder is much better off than us!! It’s not all about straight 9’s and a stars but we do need to give children confidence and training to make their own way in the world.

Well I think that’s the unfortunate truth. The whole point of different classes is differentiating people based on their occupation. There’s no way to have working class teachers as teachers are middle class.

There are teachers that struggled growing up and they absolutely make great role models but they’ll now be defined as middle class

Hea hear. Also, working hard in academia doesn't necessarily get you where you want to be. I regret half of my qualifications.