White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

But the parent is focused on the long game. People living hand to mouth can't do that. If you are worried about the electric running out you haven't got the bandwith to reseach apprenticeships.

Please read all my comments before replying. Because what you’re saying has nothing to do with my point.

I was responding to this:

“I read an article years ago that looked at groups of children and found by 8 mist children had formed a view (which was the same outcome for them at 18) of wether they thought they could go to uni or not. This is ingrained in primary.“

By saying I don’t believe many 8 year olds even know what university is, said as a parent of a current 8 year old.

I really don’t like it when people read one comment and start giving privilege lectures, I am far from rich and know what it’s like to struggle.

Happens a lot on here, although I don’t blame posters, I get it would take ages to read this entire thread.

When I write ”these WWC boys” I am specifically referring to the WWC boys who are failing at school and leave without any qualifications. I am not referring to ALL boys from this background at all.

Please refer to my earlier post where I clearly state the problem is not WWC boys generally as many of them are performing well. The problem is a subset of boys from this background who are not doing well because of a lack of parental background.

Your two points don’t make a lot of sense to me

a) Generations of children are failing so by definition these long terms initiatives are not working…?

b) Throwing money at a problem without addressing the root cause is a fools game. We know that children will flourish when their parents engage so saying “well we can’t work out how to get the parents involved so let’s just keep financing these initiatives that are not working because we have no other options” is ridiculous.

The country is crying out for skilled trades and low skilled labour. Its what most kids (of all backgrounds) should be aiming to do if immigration is going to keep coming down.

🤣🤣🤣

Move to where being white British is the minority.

Says all anyone needs to know about you if that’s all you can come up with.

and I said in my middle class family of origin and my own family 8 years olds absolitely know what University is. I then gave examples of instead of being dismissed ( either positively - that's nice dear, negatively don't be silly) aspirations were explored in an age appropriate way. I then suggested why other familys might not be able to do this so their 8 but actually more 12 or 14 year olds were significantly disadvantaged. None of that is virtue lecturing.

Why doesn't your 8 year old know what University is ?

These assumptions are getting out of hand.

Read my posts and you'll find it's far from all I have to say.

No, that would be perfectly acceptable. As is the notion that white people cannot be victims of racism. It is also more than acceptable to call white people flag shagging gammon. Grouping people into negative categories - it has a name. Oh yes, stereotyping.

I don’t believe My 8 year old knows in any meaningful way- she knows of the word and the concept but wouldn’t have an accurate view of ie the age you attend and what you go there to achieve. She wouldn’t, for example know the difference between university and college

@SheMon

Certainly the case for me anecdotally. Most skilled people I know with degrees are teachers, social workers, solicitors etc.

I have men in my family still out earning them all, with better lifestyles. More flexibility and autonomy with their work, employing other labourers now once they’ve hit 40 etc. My brothers could never have coped in 9-5s, or even having a boss they needed to answer too, so it was the right path for them.

My own 16 year old won’t be following in their footsteps though. He’s academic, and not great practically. Maybe my youngest son might head down that path though.

Teachers and social workers are low paid careers. My DH is in the big4 and earns £150k p.a. let's see a bricklayer earn that.

They're not.

Apprenticeships aren't as looked down on and they used to be and I'm glad to see more government drives in promoting them. There's no longer a wide divide between accessing degree and apprenticeship schemes. More kids are realising university isn't worth it. Now just to stop making white boys feel worthless full stop. Invest and instil confidence in them and they will contribute to society. Teachers and parents needed to be working together to achieve this, not in isolation.

The difference between University and College is intersting DS is reading for his masters at an Oxbridge College Dd is going to medical school. They are both attending higher educational establishments. Understanding the concept is what matter the rest is just semantics.

Why make it a competition?

@SheMon

I know people who earn six figures in corps - and not one of them even went to university. Straight into corp environments. So for me, I was specifically talking about graduates that I know. I don’t think they’re particularly not great paid either. All those I know who work as teachers, social workers etc are now earning 50k as a minimum. My mum was a consultant MH nurse and earnt 67k at her peak.

My brothers are plasterers now running businesses.

It isn’t a competition. Many of the above careers will be much more personally fulfilled than someone working in a big 4. Each to their own. Different pathways and all that jazz.

The whole College/School debate is like tea/ lunch/dinner IMO.

Peaking at 67k isn't lot.

It is for the NHS.

My 8 year old does know what it is but only because his uncle recently moved away to go to university. I doubt any of his friends know.

Me personally I didnt know about it until well into my teenage years and I’m 24 now so this isn’t ages ago.
I just don’t think it’s common for an 8 year to have heard of uni let alone decided whether or not they can go like that poster said way back. Sorry for the slight derail everyone.

Er no, many VSMs are on £150K. Consultants starting salary is over £100K now. £67k is not a lot for a senior NHS worker. Unless it was a long time ago.

@LuckyHazelFox

Yes band 8. Led the complex severe and ensuring adult services, she’s 65 now and not long retired.

My sister earns around the same as a MH nurse but she works in the private sector.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

My mum had a very long and fulfilling career as a consultant MH nurse. Some NHS authorities use that title. For her, yes this was a great wage. For context, she herself grew up in children’s homes etc, had a lot of lived experience through family members etc.

I mean 67k is clearly pence in the world of mumsnet. In my world it isn’t.