White working class children

[NotAnotherScarf]

The bbc has a report about a review of the academic system failing white working class children. The bulk of the population.

It's brilliant that this has been looked at but the recommendations are appalling.

Basically its saying that wcc's are only fit for manual jobs. That schools should push towards offering for vocational courses.

That's where my education went 40 years ago. One child from my year group of 242 went to university at 18. We had at most 6 kids from non white backgrounds. Many went subsequently. I have always maintained the school saw us as shop assistants, factory hands and dockers.

The other recommendations will help children of all races...free travel under 22. Promoting reading etc.

One of the reasons why kids from other backgrounds are doing better has been the push to get them into university...ie black boys being actively recruited and bursarys being given solely to them. Places sponsored etc etc.

Whilst I welcome the move to vocational training. And for many people thats a brilliant move, ts disappointing that the report thinks that that's the main option for wcc's. Basically its says "we don't think your good enough for anything else " .

BBC News - White working-class children 'failed by schools system' - BBC News
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq51j10q601o

I am not keen on the fiction you seem to prefer. I'll stick to my factual tomes; cheers.

As you previously stated the biggest determinant of your success or lack of, is yourself - education, hard work and determination as you put it.

That said it's a lot easier to not do the hard work and just blame "systemic racism or sexism" for your lack of success.

I genuinely think that white liberal women spouting the nonsense of critical race theory and DEI are a real threat to ethnic minorities by destroying hope and ambition.

As a mother how would you have reacted if your children came back from school one day and said there's no point in studying or trying to get to university or a good job because "systemic racism / sexism " means that I have no chance anyway.

I can imagine it would have been a fairly direct conversation 😀

More assumptions. It's quite amusing.

Okay but I’m telling you that in 2012 it was accurate. The fact you don’t want to accept that doesn’t make it less true.

Edit: sorry, just to ne clear, I meant to quote Backedoffhackedoff.

Thanks, there's a lot I want to read in the summer! 🤣 That sounds really interesting. I remember the BBC doing a School Swap Korea Style between Korean and Welsh boys. The Korean boys were very impressive but the overall system is clearly crazily intense...

I think Hong Kong & Taiwan do perform well internationally : according to the 2022 Pisa they both scored highly. They call Taiwan 'Chinese Taipei' in the survey:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=gpseducation.oecd.org/CountryProfile%3FprimaryCountry%3DHKG%26treshold%3D10%26topic%3DPI&ved=2ahUKEwiXnbCu9ayVAxUYRfEDHbTtBvAQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2feELxfaloX9QRznxn8d0U

I grew up in Rotherham and I can tell you, as a matter of fact, that lots of Muslims there think of non-white Muslims as worthless.

This is not the point of this thread but pretending that white people can’t be the victims of racism, as in a verbal or physical attack based on nothing except the hatred of their race, is absolutely wrong.

Sorry, just to clarify, do you mean they think of 'white non-Muslims' as worthless?

I’m not sure how else to put it.

Definitely! Otoh people clearly do often value the services of hairdressers but on another, it often is seen as unskilled, at least I've seen that attitude on here.

The few well known hairdressers, eg. Vidal Sassoon, tend to be men afaik. There's probably various reasons for that, but maybe it adds to the perception that it's not a particularly high status job when done by women.

I'm sorry to question, it's just that in your initial post you said they think of 'non-white Muslims' that way so I was just trying to clarify.

It's terrible so many there seem to have that attitude : how can it be changed?

I put white non-Muslims.

People who are not Muslim and white.

And just to say, not all Muslims have this attitude or opinion.

I think that their relatives faced racism when they arrived. That created a divide.

They saw that the white non-Muslim people around them, Rotherham being a poor town, were making poor decisions, drinking to excess, being promiscuous (I’m pretty sure Rotherham had the highest teen pregnancy statistics in all of Europe in the late 90s/ early 2000s) and believed that their culture was superior to that.

And I think it’s just evolved from that.

You typoed and put non white muslims instead of white non Muslims. In all fairness. Although I did know what you meant

My mistake.

Economically disadvantaged kids need help no matter what race.
'Coming into the country' isn't accurate for a lot of black and Bangladeshi boys though. Many will have been born here,, if they are, say, Windrush descendants their family could have been here since the 1940s.

Thank you- that makes sense...racism encouraged a backlash of 'we're better than you' but then layered onto this were deeply ingrained rural clan-based patriarchal values. If Hindus or Sikhs or even Pakistanis from urban areas less tied to the clan system had arrived, woupd the terrible crimes would have happened? Or at least not to the same extent?

It’s a perfect (not perfect but you know what I mean) storm.
It’s still happening. It’s still just as difficult to speak out about it.

Ugh let’s fall into us v them.

you cannot hold up a few disgusting individuals and say it’s so many. It simply isn’t and to insinuate otherwise is pretty racist

Being a bricklayer is a financially insecure profession. Sure, you can make a reasonably good hourly rate when you've got a job on but there can be long periods in between when you've got no money coming in. You're also at the mercy of whoever it is that's sub-contracted you as well as being reliant on the weather - you can't lay bricks when it's below freezing, for instance.

It's also a physically hard job that leaves lots of brickies with lifelong back and joint injuries. A relative of mine has a job where he helps people get back in to work after medical issues and a big proportion of his client base are people who got injured on building sites.

If you want your son to have a trade I'd recommend instead looking at being an electrician or plumber instead. He'd be more likely to make it to 50 without serious mobility issues.

It was me who said it was a lot.

It’s enough for tens of thousands of girls to be systematically raped in one town.

Mathematically, there always has to be one group that ranks lowest. It seems logical that the group with disadvantages centred around low parental literacy and numeracy and a historical aversion to school/discipline/teachers has the lowest outcomes.

So who is going to be deprioritised so that limited resources are put into fixing this into a handy soundbite?

Also, out of interest, would you be as outraged if I said lots of white people have prejudices against other races?

Re this : 'deliberately stripping out white role models and replacing them with role models from other ethnic groups in areas such as history and science. Things like music choices also changed, with world music squeezing out anything culturally British in assemblies and concerts, and often performances and presentations were prefaced with comments about how particular ethnic groups were mistreated by white people. During events like Armistice Day the focus would be on the contribution of black soldiers and so on. British history in general was viewed at best as mildly embarrassing and at worst as downright insidious.'

Surely there can be a middle ground? Black people fought in both World Wars as part of the British Empire, that's not separate from Britain, especially as many later moved here via Windrush. Music, literature could also include black British people. '

The problem imo isn't including stuff like that. It's as you say, 'stripping out' white figures rather than adding to.

Doesn't the national curriculum mean certain stuff HAS to be taught? Surely all secondary school students will come across Shakespeare, Darwin etc, or for that matter, Austen and the Brontes?

It’s racist to say “all lives matter” unless the victims are white.

I don’t doubt that people of all races face racism is specific places and circumstances.

This has been an issue for years, even 30 years ago when I was at school. I'm glad it's recognised now because I really believe this is what led to so much racism and far right views. We all know the stereotypical person involved in it is a white working class man. They've seen all the talk of BAME groups being disadvantaged and seen them get extra support when they see themselves that they are also disadvantaged but it was completely ignored, well not just ignored, it was actively denied.
I think more vocational courses is actually a positive. Some people do amazingly well in vocations, it's not lesser than academics. I've got a degree but most trades people are far out earning me.