To think UKHSA should have issued better advice in advance of the current extreme weather

[ProudCat]

First up, I'm a secondary teacher. Secondly, my adult son is severely disabled and hugely impacted by the current extreme weather. Thirdly, there was no such thing as the blitz mentality of 'keep calm and carry on' - it was pretty much a propaganda invention and a very good one at that.

Yesterday, I logged on to the Met Office's app to see that temperatures and feels like where I live were higher than temperatures and feels like where my family live, but I was under an amber heat alert and they were under a red heat alert. This changed at 9am in the morning, after the schools had opened. So that's my first issue, because it seems as if the heat alerts had followed any sort of logic (i.e. a certain temperature and feels like produces a certain heat alert) we wouldn't have ended up evacuating at lunch time. Heat alerts are put in place by UKHSA.

My second issue is that this was foreseen. We all knew at the weekend that there would be a significant rise in temperatures, most likely record breaking. Why could the UKHSA not have taken a logical approach at this time. For example, if temperature are going to reach 35 degrees, then we will definitely need to operate under a business recovery plan. Instead of doing this, they prevaricated, leaving people unclear, especially local authorities and school academies, who ended up having to make the call according to common sense rather than solid government-led guidance. This isn't good enough. Everyone was literally waiting to be told exactly what the guidance was and it never came through. This led to last minute decisions and disruption for families (in the case of education). What's the point of a huge organisation like the UKHSA if it's not actually able to carry out the function of its role in a timely manner.

Finally, it concerns me that decisions about public health, which should be coordinated by a health agency, are being made locally and piecemeal. This shouldn't be happening. In an 'industry' - such as education - there should be standing risk assessments and identified control measures already in place, and these should be informed by the appropriate public body. It shouldn't be left to individual schools to 'make it up as they go along' in the total absence of proper guidance from the LA - who themselves are at a bit of a loss because they haven't got any guidance either. Instead, we have (understandably) disgruntled parents and carers who suddenly find their lives upended with last minute notifications that they're struggling to respond to.

Come on UKHSA, get your act together.

I went into London yesterday too - on a lovely air conditioned train!

@WolfinSheepsDress I got an air conditioned train for 15 mins. It genuinely isn't that bad in London today. Also life, to some extent, has to go on.

This I agree with.

As additional information:

The UK Department for Education (DfE) and the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) mandate that schools enforce risk management and adapt environments to keep students safe during extreme heat. Rather than mandatory closures, schools are expected to implement practical adaptations, provide ample hydration, and consult union guidelines for teacher/student welfare.

In other words, there's absolutely no framework for when / how we can't keep students safe during extremely hot weather. The most recent government guidance, published 3 days ago, says schools should stay open, because attendance is our top priority - so no, heads can't make these decisions on their own, not without risking their professional reputation. The guidance also says that heat can be managed through relaxing uniform restrictions and drinking water. As someone who grew up abroad in extremely hot countries, this isn't how extreme heat is managed, instead it's managed through AC systems. We don't have those in UK schools, so government and public health advice needs to reflect that.

All schools l'm aware of do have adverse weather plans in place, based on a shared understanding between government and schools, of what constitutes adverse weather. However, this isn't adverse weather, it's extreme emergency conditions tagged as 'risk to life' and there simply isn't any credible government and UKHSA guidance on this. For example, telling teachers in schools to open their non-opening windows during the evening to let the heat out. It's as if they want to pretend it's not that big of a deal.

In terms of local plans, yes, of course, using logic, set out in a framework, as I've now said more than once. If x, then y. For example, if you "have a couple of rooms with air con, a shady playground and a old Victorian building which stays fairly cool on the lower floors" (this is x), then you probably don't need to close. But if you have no air con, no shade and a building that actively traps heat (this is x), then you should close. Instead, what we have, is "Schools should remain open and let as many children attend as possible, where safe to do so." To me this seems very woolly from a public health perspective that costs us nearly £2 billion to fund every year.

Yabu.

We were clearly warned of record breaking temperatures and put under a red alert, ie danger to life.

We are all adults,we know to carry water when travelling, protect our homes by closing windows & blinds during the day, using fans, opening windows at night, wearing loose linen clothes and eating high moisture foods while cutting out carbs and sugar.

It is up to you OP, to manage your response.

After we had peak nanny state in 2020, with the government micromanaging every aspect of our lives down to where we could stand, and how many of our own families we could have as guests (immediately followed by “pleeeeeeeeeeeeease take refugee total strangers into your homes”), we DO NOT want more of the same, with a top-down one size fits all approach. Yet clearly, some people are craving this. I knew this would happen: people demanding the government to legislate us through everything, with the leaders of each nation competing to inflict as much misery as they could on their citizens. Now, it seems we’re racing to the bottom to be as miserable as we can in hot weather (which some people pay thousands to fly out to).

We need to get back to deciding these things for ourselves.

No, we had an amber alert in my area (as I've now explained several times) despite our temperatures, feels like temperatures and humidity exceeding some of those in red alert areas. How are we meant to have been very clearly warned when the UKHSA alert was wrong?

Some schools don't have windows that open, or they have only tiny windows that don't open very far. Blinds are often broken. We don't have fans, there isn't the money for it, and you can't bring one in from home because it hasn't been PAT tested. So if we can't put in place your suggestions, then we're left with wear linen, drink water and avoid sugar. I went into school today. Some of those classrooms are at 45/46 degrees - and that's without the actual children.

My ds' school has adjusted menus to offer cold food and sorbets.
Given permisson to wear PE kit.
Opened all windows very early in the morning.
Put water stations outside every class room.
Provided factor 50 cream as required
Adjusted activities to reduce or slow movement.
Put up several gazebos on the top field for extra shade..

As with most extreme weather events in the UK, instructions are to do the best you can.

The updated guidance is indeed woolly and unrealistic.

It is guidance is not statutory. Certainly my trust felt able to make its own decisions about closures and be in line with this guidance.

Witness the carry on in Wales when they had a Red Warning a few winters ago which luckily (for Wales at least) headed on a more southerly path and Wales avoided the worst of it. Not so much the poor Channel Islands.

Schools had been shut in Wales, stay at home advice issued etc then (again, luckily) it wasn't needed. However people were most put out.

The point I'm making is that weather forecasting, especially in this country, can never be an exact science.

YANBU at all and it’s staggering to me that people don’t expect more of government agencies in these kinds of conditions. If you had millions of children freezing in schools, you’d expect government to step in as a matter of urgency and require special provisioning. Why is heat any different (except that it’s far easier to stay warm than it is to stay cool!)

• I can manage myself very well at home but I can't predict what may go wrong in other circs like the poor people stuck on that airless train for hours in 37.degree heat and no windows opening

Heads can and have been making the decisions to keep their schools safe based on their own risk assessments! For instance my school has stayed open, however today and tomorrow children can wear non school uniform and be collected at 1.15 if parents so wish however for those parents who can’t collect early we are open as normal
including after school club!
I’m afraid with school closure they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t!
Every school is different so you can’t mandate full closures as even 2 schools in the same town will have different risk factors!!

There are just over 400 weather stations across the UK, covering over 240,000 square kilometres. It is impossible for them to give absolutely accurate forecast data for every single location in the country.

I think it can be exact enough to not say one thing at 8 in the morning and another thing at 9 in the morning. I mean there's no point to forecasts if they're aftercasts is there. And if our public health system is based on something so brittle, don't we need another policy? Or should we just lump it and evacuate 1,000s of pupils when necessary?

Are you saying the warnings issued by UKHSA can't possibly be accurate?

Not suggesting mandating full closures, have clearly stated over and over again that it should be local.

Thing is, as a union rep, I was involved in this, communicating with other reps across the city, in a live chat scenario, two days before, the day before and on the day itself - so you're looking at a couple of dozen reps all reporting in from their schools. What became absolutely clear is that heads felt unable to act until the emergency was upon us. Surely, the role of the UKHSA is not to wait until the shit hits the fan. Isn't that what the COVID inquiry was about? Isn't that why the UKHSA was set up in 2021 replacing Public Health England?

Going to leave this now, but from what I understand most people are perfectly happy with a responsive approach rather than a proactive approach. I don't understand why anyone would prefer this.

local authorities and school academies, who ended up having to make the call according to common sense rather than solid government-led guidance.
Agree with PPs that this is how it should be. It shouldn't be on the govt to manage every aspect of our lives.
Weather warnings were issued and there is plenty of guidance easily accessible on gov uk. I'm certain that specific guidance will be issued to local authorities also. It's then their responsibility to decide what to do about that advice.
If your school didn't close take it up with the school.

Of course it's 'adverse weather' and you've just demonstrated that there's absolutely nothing stopping schools drawing up their own policies and plans. They don't need to wait for a diktat from above.

I work in regulation and it never ceases to amaze me how many so called professionals want every little thing spelt out to them in minute detail. Then when you do, they complain of too much regulatory burden. This is no different. The PP who mentioned the debacle of COVID lockdowns is spot on.

Come on can we not make decisions for ourselves? Why do we need a red or yellow warning? And we DID know @SamAylward! Forecasting is not exact but they knew this heatwave was coming and so did anyone who bothers to check. I think the porters that be are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Close schools and parents will be in an uproar about not having childcare. Don’t close schools and everyone is in an uproar. I would keep schools open, allow the kids to dress in mufti and keep the schedule a bit flexible.

No, I'm saying it may not be possible for the warnings to be 100% accurate for every location.

Don't know about the UKHSA but I think the weather forecasters in the UK (at the UK Met Office) and elsewhere in Europe did a pretty good job at predicting this...can't really fault the accuracy.

Certainly from what I've seen forecast temperatures have matched what has been observed at the official reporting official stations as close as is it reasonable to expect in this day and age.

I think OP is being bonkers harsh

But here is yet another problem that could be solved with air conditioning... and it would probably be a damn sight cheaper if we had a sensible procurement process and if we didn't have those other bodies trying to pin down specific weather forecasts.

And it's not just schools. Doctors are referring to:

"Out of seven patients reviewed, four of them had adverse effects due to the extreme heat ... ward(s) lacking in air-conditioning or ventilation. Patients on medications known to cause issues in extreme heat had not been given specific advice on adjusting these during extreme weather and were admitted to hospital as a result ... Sweat was falling on to the patient from the faces of frustrated staff members, with tempers flaring among colleagues ... Specialist doctors need to advise appropriately, the NHS needs to plan proactively and hospital departments need to support staff adequately."

And: "We are now ‘reverse parking’ patients opposite one another because there is simply nowhere else to put them. Privacy and dignity disappear instantly. We are breaking bad news in corridors with other patients listening because there’s no room to go anywhere else. We are resuscitating patients in corridors after cardiac arrest. This should never happen in a modern health system."

People can either pretend this isn't an issue in the public sector, and it's a problem if we need everything little thing spelled out, and 'diktats' from above are akin to fascism, or they can accept there's a massive problem with the UK Health Security Agency and it isn't fit for purpose.

Schools were open, some of them with 2,000 pupils on site, kids weren't in uniform but some of them were still heat exhausted. It was impossible to manage. Sure, I can see how primaries with few pupils might be ok. This is why we need logic, if x, then y. That's all I'm asking for. Logic.

Yes, the problem could be solved (most likely with AC), but not if people, and the UKHSA, keep refusing to accept there's a problem. If no AC (x) then it's too hot for health (y).