To think UKHSA should have issued better advice in advance of the current extreme weather

[ProudCat]

First up, I'm a secondary teacher. Secondly, my adult son is severely disabled and hugely impacted by the current extreme weather. Thirdly, there was no such thing as the blitz mentality of 'keep calm and carry on' - it was pretty much a propaganda invention and a very good one at that.

Yesterday, I logged on to the Met Office's app to see that temperatures and feels like where I live were higher than temperatures and feels like where my family live, but I was under an amber heat alert and they were under a red heat alert. This changed at 9am in the morning, after the schools had opened. So that's my first issue, because it seems as if the heat alerts had followed any sort of logic (i.e. a certain temperature and feels like produces a certain heat alert) we wouldn't have ended up evacuating at lunch time. Heat alerts are put in place by UKHSA.

My second issue is that this was foreseen. We all knew at the weekend that there would be a significant rise in temperatures, most likely record breaking. Why could the UKHSA not have taken a logical approach at this time. For example, if temperature are going to reach 35 degrees, then we will definitely need to operate under a business recovery plan. Instead of doing this, they prevaricated, leaving people unclear, especially local authorities and school academies, who ended up having to make the call according to common sense rather than solid government-led guidance. This isn't good enough. Everyone was literally waiting to be told exactly what the guidance was and it never came through. This led to last minute decisions and disruption for families (in the case of education). What's the point of a huge organisation like the UKHSA if it's not actually able to carry out the function of its role in a timely manner.

Finally, it concerns me that decisions about public health, which should be coordinated by a health agency, are being made locally and piecemeal. This shouldn't be happening. In an 'industry' - such as education - there should be standing risk assessments and identified control measures already in place, and these should be informed by the appropriate public body. It shouldn't be left to individual schools to 'make it up as they go along' in the total absence of proper guidance from the LA - who themselves are at a bit of a loss because they haven't got any guidance either. Instead, we have (understandably) disgruntled parents and carers who suddenly find their lives upended with last minute notifications that they're struggling to respond to.

Come on UKHSA, get your act together.

"We all knew at the weekend that there would be a significant rise in temperatures, most likely record breaking. "

No, we did not know. It was considered likely.

Your whole argument is based on the assumption that weather forecasting is an exact science, which it is not, and that the situation cannot change in a very short time from that which was originally anticipated.

YABU

YABU - UKHSA doesn't have the remit to decide e.g. whether schools should close. That rests with the Department for Education.

We got a red heat alert in my area in advance of the really hot days. Other organisations with the actual decision making power did nothing with it.

You’re an adult aren’t you?? Yabu.

I have a chronic health condition that is impacted by the heat. I’m an adult though and can take responsibility for myself. Vulnerable adults without full capacity and children aside, everyone should know how to be sensible in extreme heat. And vulnerable adults and children should have adult carers who can do that on their behalf.

I researched the guidance on extreme temperatures for my chronic condition and followed those guidance in terms of behaviour change and medication dosing. It’s not hard. Blanket guidance from UKHSA isn’t helpful because it wouldn’t cover the specific things I’d need to do to manage my illness, which would be different from what your son needs to manage his.

Well we've known about climate change for over a century now and really ignored it, so everything from now on is damage limitation in a situation where the damage can't really be controlled because the heat ain't stopping here, it's going up and up over time.
I suggest everyone just straps in and does their best because none of this is going to get any prettier unfortunately.
I say this as someone who was a member of Friends of the Earth back in the 70s when the membership was a hand-typed list.
This is now disaster mitigation.

UKHSA issues warnings and alerts. It doesn’t issue directions to close. That remit lies with DfE for school, DHSC for hospitals etc. If your LA is a bit shit, that’s on them not the UKHSA.

And if you didn’t plan for the possibility, given it’s been all over the news, that’s on you.

Do you want the government to control every element of your life? Local decisions are fine imo. Should not have to rely on government guidance to implement common sense.

Really boils down to this. You’ve been presented with all the information. There’s no confusion or conflicting information. Go make your own choices and decisions. Applies to the individual/school/employer etc. Take responsibility for you and yours.

Agree with what everyone else is saying. I am in a red warning zone (London), I decided to go in to central London today to run some errands.I am a fit and healthy adult, I took water, wore a hat and went earlier than planned to ensure I was back inside by midday. It was fine. I took the information in to account and worked out my risk tolerancd.

In fact it is pretty fine in London today, very warm but a good breeze and a lot of shade.

I’ve been seeing warnings on the BBC news app
and social media since the weekend so I’m not sure how you think there has been a lack of information?
Sadly the weather is a fickle beast and can change unpredictably!
And thirdly a blanket closure of schools
would be ridiculous! Each leadership team in each school takes the decision based on their own schools circumstance!
And fourthly it has been proved time and time again that if you make the decision to close/ alter schools timings too early the weather pulls a curve ball and it was unnecessary!

Also to add that the forecast has changed too this past few days. We were predicted 37/8 today but now it's high of 32 and 37 tomorrow when it was originally 32

Finally, it concerns me that decisions about public health, which should be coordinated by a health agency, are being made locally and piecemeal.

Decisions have to be made 'locally and piecemeal'. Weather can be very localised. In parts of my county temperatures have been/may be over 30 this week, in other parts mid-20s.

In the same county in winter, some parts might have enough snow to bring things to a standstill while other parts have none.

Do you want a whole county to shut down because some parts might be experiencing adverse weather?

So, I'll take these one at a time:

We have a person saying people didn't know, and then another saying people did know. I wonder which claim is correct.

Someone says the DfE has the remit to decide whether or not schools close. This simply isn't the case.

I'm an adult and I should just strap in. OK. Hope you believe that also holds true for our students who were doing their mocks in halls with 70+ other students, no AC and temperatures of over 40 degrees. This situation is clearly acceptable to you.

To the single person who has a chronic health condition, sure, can you see how researching for one person isn't hard but researching for 100s of people is? Who's doing this researching in schools? There aren't any carers or anything else.

To the person who wants me to plan for the possibility and suggests that it's my fault, people do realise that they're suggesting each teacher should independently plan for each one of their classes in the day? In my case, 5 classes, ranging in age from 11-19, with dozens of different health conditions. When am I going to do this planning? While I'm teaching them? While I'm attending progress evening?

No, I'm not saying government should control every area of my life, however, i am saying that the remit of the UKHSA is to advise on public health and public health is at risk in extreme heat.

To the person who suggests I 'go make my own choices'. What choices are these? As a classroom teacher. What choices are available to me? I cannot lower the temperature below 40 degrees. The children are being sick in bins. What would you like me to do?

We have a fit and healthy adult saying they worked out their own tolerances and they're fine. I'm curious as to whether this fit and healthy adult thinks 11 year olds can do the same.

In terms of local decisions, of course, that was exactly my point. It's basic logic, if x, then y. So, if the predicted temperature is going to be over 35 degrees, then we provide advice. I wasn't saying decisions should be made that cover the whole nation, I was saying that UKHSA, as a national body, should provide accurate advice to local areas.

Your school decided to hold mocks as planned - that’s on school management. Not UKHSA.

I wasn’t suggesting you made written plans for each class or aspect of work. But maybe back up caring plans for any family members you care for. Again - UKHSA isn’t going to tell you what plan to implement for your students’ different needs. That’s on school management.

The Met office provides forecasts - again not the UKHSA to verify the likelihood of those forecasts being correct.

Your school management team really should have had all this in place. It’s their failing.

My workplace (a university) managed to make a decision about coming onto campus for staff and students at the beginning of the week. They weren’t sitting there waiting forUKHSA to issue something before hitting the send email button.

@ProudCat the people with responsibility for 11 year olds and vulnerable people take decisons for them- obviously.

Mr Monkey leads a running club after work on Wednesdays in central London. He took the decision to cancel it three days beforehand as he felt it was too risky as he is not certain all of the people that run with him can cope with exertion in high temperatures. Yes all the runners are adults but he is responsible for them, so took a call.

No, I'm not saying government should control every area of my life, however, i am saying that the remit of the UKHSA is to advise on public health and public health is at risk in extreme heat.

@ProudCat It did. It issued a red level Heat Health Alert. That's literally what those alerts are for. It is then for other organisations to take steps to minimise the risk to their specific employees/service users.

But the UKHSA have been issuing updates! I’ve just checked on their website and the first one was issued on Thursday 18th June warning of hot weather however it was a warning not a guaranteed event. It’s then on all of us to watch the weather and further updates as the event progresses! They posted further updates on Monday 20th Tuesday 21st, Tuesday 22nd and Wednesday 24th June!!
The government won’t issue a blanket lockdown of the whole country because of hot weather or they would have to pay everyone’s wages! They offer the advice then it’s up to schools, business’ and individuals to asses their needs and make plans!!

I used to work in a university, and my daughter tried to attend one. I do remember them repeatedly feeling very comfortable cancelling all lectures during the UCU strike action in 2018/19 and then, of course, remaining closed to students during COVID for a full year. It's as if universities never fail to hit the send email button on closures. Good for them.

Your school decided to hold mocks as planned - that’s on school management. Not UKHSA.

While under the amber alert, issued by the UKHSA, yes, the school went ahead with mocks (they're quite expensive to reschedule). This would be the amber alert for higher temperatures, higher feels like and higher humidity than places with red alerts. Is there no part of that which seems odd?

UKHSA isn’t going to tell you what plan to implement for your students’ different needs

Why isn't a public health body, whose remit is to ensure public health, going to provide advice and information about what to do in a health emergency? The thing you need before a plan is information. And it's not just the students, various staff members have different needs.

Mr Monkey leads a running club after work on Wednesdays in central London. He took the decision to cancel it three days beforehand ...

Mr Monkey isn't mandated by a different government body (the DfE) that he must have a running every Wednesday so, of course, Mr Monkey can make choices because Mr Monkey won't face any repercussions for any choice about whether to run or not run. However, as your example shows, decisions were possible 3 days in advance. This kind of proves my point. If Mr Monkey can do it, on the basis of risk to health, why can't the government body with the responsibility of managing risks to public health?

They offer the advice then it’s up to schools, business’ and individuals to asses their needs and make plans!!

It's not 'up to schools'. There seems to be a woeful misunderstanding of how much power schools have. Schools can't just shut on their own say so. Yes, I can see heads on TV referring to their decisions as if they made them but that's not how it works. Either, they're mandated by government, e.g. like in COVID. Or they have a blueprint related to snow days that wasn't applicable in this instance - partly because there's no upper temperature limit for health and safety purposes. Or heads have to wait for guidance from their Local Authority. In this instance, due to the mistaken UKHSA amber alert (which was suddenly switched to red after 9am and school started despite there being no change to temperature, feels like temperature and humidity predictions for the day), schools had to be evacuated at lunch time.

My point is really very simple and I'm at a loss as how it's not getting across. Should the UKHSA have made up its mind earlier? There was no change, therefore, how can amber suddenly move to red? Further, if Mr Monkey can figure it out 3 days in advance, why can't a massive government body, that costs us all nearly £2 billion a year, and whose sole responsibility is public health in emergencies and extremities, not manage to do this 3 hours in advance?

I think there should be clear guidelines and the dfe should produce a framework and schools should be asked to have adverse weather conditions plans in place, but decisions and plans need to be made locally as school buildings, pupil cohorts, transport and even staffing levels are so variable. Even two schools in the same town could reasonably reach a different conclusion. It also reasonable it might be short notice, in that this heat was widely predicted but Friday is hotter than expected and the heat is building up inside as the days go on.

And academy trusts heads can make the decision to close a school without dfe or la say so?

How did you get in. It's not a risk I would take if I dkdnt have too.
It's fine if transport runs smoothly it's when it doesn't that's the problem.
Did you see that broken down train with no air con ,no windows open in 37 heat for two hours

So much hysteria and over reaction go hit weather

A bit like we had in the 80s: Stop, Look, Listen we should have a snappy memorable mantra rather than endless chatter on radio and TV 'news'.

How about: Close curtains and blinds. Close windows and doors if it's hotter outside than inside. Stay hydrated even if you're not thirsty. Keep an eye on elderly neighbours etc. And don't walk your dog!

There could be a simple, hard hitting advert on TV, radio, socials, in schools etc.

You know far more about your needs and your son's needs than the government does. Individual schools have very different circumstances. Our school has not considered closing and we are in hot central London. We have a couple of rooms with air con, a shady playground and a old Victorian building which stays fairly cool on the lower floors.