To think carers are classed as unskilled but expected to be skilled when things go wrong.

[JonasBogeys]

Maybe it would be a good time to look at the skill set needed for care work and PAY THEM MORE MONEY.
Most carers I meet through my job seem exhausted by working the amount of hours needed to get by.
They receive inadequate training at times.
They get punched and abused (a lot!)
Is it any wonder things go wrong?

Excellent points. You cannot make a silk purse from a pigs ear.
The whole system needs an overhaul. Millions spent on care, someone has to fund it.
The only winners are health insurance companies, and private care homes.

Really? There is 8 modules to the first level 5 qualification, I think there is 6 for a level 6, disgraceful that you don’t need to have this, care skills is one module and imperative to the job.
I know in the north of Ireland you need to be qualified or training towards a qualification.
A lot of companies will pay for the coursework if you agree to a year contract but they have to be seen to be actively working on their course work.
That’s disgraceful that some care companies are not expecting the same thing.

If more men were carers they would definitely be paid more. Minimum wage (in most cases) is an insult.

rude

I think there should be a way to earn on the job qualifications and some career progression.

My son is doing care work but unfortunately the only progression seems to be into the office for £1 per hour more to argue with all the care staff over rotas. He has had a nightmare with his rotas so would hate to be enforcing it on others so he's happy sticking with care work for now.

Training was 3 days unpaid plus some shadowing, so he worked for several days before even qualifying for any pay. A few times per year they are called into the office for an update.

If he needs to phone the office for help and advice and gets a certain member of staff, I can hear the defensiveness and waryness in her voice. I assume she is traumatised but it makes her hard to deal with. He picked up a medical emergency last week so that's the sort of thing he really needs an extra pair of eyes on and there should be an atmosphere of support, openness and collaboration that makes calling for advice less daunting. In my opinion this us and them attitude has created a dangerous situation.

He has already had a few traumatic events and there is no support from the company to debrief, reflect and learn, but they are quick to a apportion blame.

Thing is I work in care and the company I work for we are Feeding tube trained , oxgen trained and have training on giving epilepsy rescue meds but are paid min wage .It is insanely hard and difficult to be making decisions on children's health and what they need when you also know that if you make the wrong decision you could end up in court .I really think companies need to look at the difference between care and nursing.

He did unpaid work and training? Genuine question, is that not against the law?

Agree they shouldn’t but it’s a choice isn’t it? Unless I was desperate for money and had absolutely zero other job options, I would not choose to be a carer. I couldn’t do the role at all, not even for more pay. I’d be miserable and resentful every day of my life. Would rather clean toilets. Ditto TA’s, they often choose that role rather than doing a PGCE because they want less responsibility and hours that fit better around their kids. Of course they won’t be paid the same as the actual teacher. Agree they shouldn’t be on min wage though.

I would hope so.

I believe its a shady area. There was a drive to have clear rules around it but it never happened

In theory you should be entitled to minimum wage but its unclear when this applies

Its not unusual in the care industry and for a while it was rife in hospitality. People working full shifts in restaurants without pay for a job that didn't exist

There are lots of care agency practices that are shady and potentially go against workers rights. However its an area where often the workers have very little choice, arent always informed and dont have easy access to unions etc. Lots of people do kick up a fuss and refuse stuff, but ultimately its hard to find agencies that are playing by the rules so you end up going along with it

It's also partially the risks around lots of immigrant staff, they are less likely to know their entitlements and more likely to struggle to walk out.

For example there is manual handling training but its not uncommon to not have the time to do it properly.

Someone who is an NHS hca is much more protected in terms and conditions, Much more likely to have a union presence, sick leave and access to a hr department

I work in care. 13hts shifts dealing with everything from personal care, medication, behavioural issues to shopping and dealing with hospital admissions. Its a very demanding job paid very poorly and if anything goes wrong you are basically on your own. No extra pay for nights or weekends and little time off. I do it because im good at the job, I am highly trained and im a qualified teacher. One of the problems is that people coming from overseas like to get jobs on this field as they can then access free NHS care for themselves and their family. Some not all of these people are not adequately trained as a previous poster has said training in other countries is no where near the same quality. They are just in the job as it gives access to the NHS, a lot dont actually care about the people they support and do not have the right attitude for the job. It makes the job a lot harder for the ones who are in it for the right reasons.

Strange. I’ve looked into it for myself in the past and every job I looked at required NVQ’s in care at level 3 or 4.

Is this in a hospital? NHS or council run facility then yes you will private ones will take you on from
16 with no care back ground at all

Genuinely not for a big standard care job
https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=adba58baa4d0e60c&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=413e28c475c79397&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=413e28c475c79397&from=shareddesktop_copy

https://uk.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=5cf482dc4ffb4631&from=shareddesktop_copy

Enjoy the one that calls it a complex role.

Private care companies will take you on from 16 with basic training. There are certain things you can’t do and you would mainly work with dementia patients and do hygiene etc nothing medial but you don’t need formal qualifications to be a care worker

You usually at a minimum have to be at least enrolled at college and working towards a level 2 qualification in care for even a starter job.

OK, so how much do bin men get paid compared to carers? They sure as hell get paid more, but i guess a penis counts as a qualification.

In England?
Not typically.
Sometimes they will put you through it when working

Lots of care agencies are actively recruiting stating you dont need experience or qualifications

I posted some job vacancies above from a few mile radius that didnt need it

https://www.helpinghandshomecare.co.uk/jobs/care-jobs-no-experience/

https://www.lilianfaithfull.co.uk/blog/how_to_become_a_care_worker_with_no_experience/

Whilst I agree that the world has changed, I do ultimately believe that most of us don't want to be carers for our own relatives, let alone strangers, even if we were paid to do so. I wish we had a poll on this thread to confirm the percentage of people that would willingly accept the role of carer if circumstances allowed. I can almost guarantee that it would be a small percentage and if scaled, would leave us with insufficient carers to meet the Nation's care needs.

I think we are still in a strange hybrid model where there is an assumption that the state is ultimately responsible for all our care. So if we fail to save enough money or can't find a willing relative, then the state has to care for us. The problem is that this is predicated on an underlying fact that the majority of care undertaken in the country is provided by friends and relatives. Millions of people are providing over 50 hours of care per week for friends and relatives. The state could not absorb this level of care and the whole system would fall apart if the informal care stopped. So people like your grandmother have to be in the minority but then this leads to claims of unfairness. If I am caring for my relative at my detriment then why doesn't everyone have to? Why do our taxes fund care for some so that their relatives can maintain lifestyles whilst others have to make great personal sacrifices to offer care?

I was reading a good book about the future of work that talked about how ultimately, no technology is going to be able to replace care and education - care work, healthcare, teaching, and childcare. These should all be highly regarded kinds of work with excellent training and good pay.

Maybe.
In an ideal world after a lottery win my mother in law would move into an annexe in the garden. Her care needs arent great and with close family support we would be able to do it.

However distance, and my work and family commitments mean it isn't doable. Its not a question of what we are willing to sacrifice because there isnt a sacrifice to be made. We own a home, we couldnt afford the rent in mil area, nor to buy. Especially with reduced wages due to caring. Mil is council, and cant move county (we asked!).

We cant afford much private care for her, neither can she. And the whole basis of a care package from the council would be that we would still need to massively contribute. The food shop is only one aspect, we get regular calls from the carers with reasonable requests. When she had temporary care while recovering from a steoke , the extra enhanced care, its super rarem youre lucky to get it care package had massive gaps in it eg any task that might take more than a few min

Currently we are driving over at least monthly but financially its not doable for us long term.

The system is completely propped by unpaid carers.

I wonder what would happen if she had no one . What happens to all the tasks that arent in your 2x30 min call like throwing out food in the fridge, bigger cleaning jobs, buying laundry powder, sorting out banking etc to those people. I suspect what happens is that they dont get done and the person deteriorating into care homes

Too many people don't want their council tax increased enough to pay carers properly.

Well considering a lot of people will not be eligible for state funded care the it's hardly surprising is it?

100% agree. Same for teaching assistants and any assistant level jobs working with kids with SEN. Sad that those entrusted with looking after the most vulnerable in society are paid the bare minimum.

If you look at the job it does say part of their offerings is care certificates/ NVQs. I’m pretty sure there is a rule that you have to be qualified or at least working towards level 2 within a certain period