Should schools be closed at 35°C?

[DancingThroughLife02]

Not really an AIBU but looking ahead at the forecast for next week and it’s looking like a scorcher.

I work in a secondary school in a science classroom (which seems to get extra hot during practicals) and we have no fans or AC or anything at all to keep the children cool. Open windows don’t seem to help much. The thermostat in the classroom got above 30°C in the afternoon.

The children need to have their water bottles filled at break times and lunch times only and are not allowed to fill them during lessons - which I disagree with as so many come to me saying that they didn’t get a chance to fill theirs up in the 20 minute lunch break.

Last week I had children saying they were dizzy and feeling sick, and they’re made to go outside during breaks. I’m also not sure that anything I taught them during the extra hot days actually stuck in anyway as they all seemed melted onto the desks.

I know there is a legal lower temperature limit for classrooms/workplaces but maybe with the increasing summer temperatures over the last few years we need to start considering investing in ACs as the heat in summer seems to be more prolonged than a couple hot days and in the meantime consider health and safety of the students (and teachers as even I was beginning to feel a bit dizzy).

950 children - and no! We don’t even manage to get a proper lunch sometimes but as stated by some posters, this is the unfortunate reality in academies!

Again I’m not saying they should actually close but we’re not equipped!

Public buildings, including schools, where a lot of people are crammed into enclosed spaces, need air conditioning. It's not that hard to understand. I don't think most people's homes require AC as long as it is possible to create a through breeze by opening windows judiciously (though I am aware that a lot of newer builds and conversions are not properly designed for this, unfortunately). And at home it's pretty easy to wear fewer clothes and to soak feet in cold water when you get a bit hot.

Any senior management who don't allow filling water bottles in very hot weather are serious control freaks, and pretty dim at that. How much learning will children do if they're dehydrated and counting the minutes till they can get a drink?

In some parts of the world where its really hot they start school at 5am and finish around 12 noon.
We could do that or put reflective foil on the windows which let's you see out but doesn't let people see in and reflects some of the heat.
We could paint schools white which reflects heat.
We could provide adequate water bottle refill facilities.
We could add fans and/or ac.

What we should not do is close schools because its hot and/or teachers cant be arsed

Last summer my classroom thermometer showed 40 degrees! 30 bodies in a small room, with glass on 2 sides and windows that open a magical 2 inches. I do have blinds but, if they are down, no air can get into the room. By the afternoon, it’s like being in a giant, sweaty greenhouse. We don’t have any fans.

The children can’t learn and are hot and grumpy. This leads to them arguing and snapping at each other, getting upset and challenging behaviour spikes. Not sure what the solution is and I’m not saying that schools should be closed but I’m very much in favour of relaxing uniform rules. Lots of parents send their children in with mini fans which is great, up to a point but they cause problems when they go missing, break or the batteries run out.

Going to enjoy my day in the garden today and just try and survive next week.

I'd encourage every parent here saying that schools should do a better job of looking after children in warm weather to write to the head and copy in the chair of governors.

It's not just the kids who have to follow the rules, it's the teachers too. For example, if your school has a policy that children aren't allowed out during lessons to fill up their water bottles, then us teachers are required to follow the policy no matter what we think of it. We're in a horrible position, damned if we do and damned if we don't. We can be formally disciplined for not following policy.

As for PE kit, most of it in this country is made from synthetic fibres, not cotton, and is notoriously bad in hot weather.

Long story short, as a country, our infrastructure is not equipped for these temperatures. However, instead of closing schools I would suggest the following:

1. Risk assessments should be put in place for high temperatures
2. Medical advice should be sought for these risk assessments for each factor that contributes to increased risk, e.g. diabetes
3. Recommendations from these risk assessments should be adhered to

In this way, we should end up with a robust approach to high temperature days.

Do they stay indoors when at home? Probably out with friends. Schools are no different to hospitals, they need to stay open. I would have more water breaks, stay inside at lunch and let them wear PE kit or something similarly light weight during the heat wave

At home they can cool themselves down and drink when they want. At school they can't.

My classroom has huge windows and is like a green house!!!

I think mainstream teachers need to take a lesson from special when it’s this hot and stop trying to do normal lessons. When I worked in SEN we would essentially be doing childcare but it kept everyone regulated and happy. We got the water play out, a paddling pool or two and set up some choosing in the shade. I used to keep ice lollies in the freezer in the kitchen. You’ve just got to get through the day, no one is doing any meaningful learning anyway.

It's on a par with saying that councils should invest in snow ploughs in Winter for the few days they would be needed, the high temperatures are only very high on a few days and wouldn't justify the expense. When I was teaching I used to take a fan into my classroom, windows on two sides. I do wish shops boasting of having aircon would keep their doors shut, aircon is almost useless otherwise.

We could do all of those things. They unfortunately cost money that schools don’t have. I’d happily start work earlier, in the coolest part of the day. Lots of my children already rock up to class 30 minutes late though.

Please don’t think it’s because teachers can’t be arsed! Unfortunately the majority of “solutions” are out of the control of the teacher who is actually in the room with your children.

Children in most hot countries don’t have uniform? Really? I disagree. Especially if you look at former colonial countries. I’m from a former very hot British colony. Uniforms galore, blazers all the works. However we do start school earlier so 7am and done by 1pm, so learning is done by the hottest part of the day.

Sun hats are part of the uniform and I guess also the way the school buildings are built, they are cool inside. No AC though, at least the school I went to .

Yes, they absolutely should. It doesn’t hit those temperatures very often, but it’s detrimental to health and no learning takes place. Parents cope with random days off. I would much rather manage an emergency childcare situation than know my children aren’t safe and comfortable at school.

I lived in Thailand where the schools definitely didn't have an upper limit, the kids wore uniform and both the school day and lunch break were standard.

What I think should probably change here is the school year. The hottest month is July, yet in England the kids are still in school then. June is a hot month, and yet is a typical exams month. Perhaps shifting things around a bit would be sensible.

"No one is doing any meaningful learning" is exactly the problem.

What is the point in sending kids to school if everyone agrees that they're not going to actually learn anything because it's too hot?

I suspect SEN schools are more capable of whipping out paddling pools for their cohorts because there aren't 1400 kids in the school.

Most school teaching staff have 1/2 hour lunch break. If they get delayed taking that 1/2 hour break, then yes, it's more than possible to have 20 minutes to eat lunch. If that person is due back to class to teach, they can't say 'sorry, but I only had 20 minutes lunch, so I'm staying in the staff room for another 10 minutes, you'll need to find cover'!! It really doesn't work like that! Is it wrong, of course it is, but schools don't have an unlimited amount of cover staff.

Agreed. There are no paddling pools in my secondary school of 2000 students, where I teach on the top floor. I have 34 students in my room sometimes.

As much as I would love to say yes (I work in a 1960’s built school thats aligned to have full sun on the back of the classrooms all day with barely opening windows!) it’s not really practical! We’d also have to allow all the parents to not work to look after their children and any business that doesn’t have air con to also close so I don’t think it’s feasible. We do the best we can, children are allowed to wear PE kit rather than uniform and we limit outdoor time due to being in full sun and have fans etc going inside.

It’s the principle - I wouldn’t suggest a paddling pool for year 10s! But you’re not going to be able to get your Bunsen Burners out and do your chemistry practical in any efficacious way so do something else. It can be loosely linked to the curriculum if you like but there’s no point being a martyr to it.

The campaigners say that schools should install air conditioning (and solar panels to power them) - where is that money coming from? And the money to service/maintain that equipment?
And it’s not just the cost of having aircon and solar panels installed, in a lot of schools the roof would need remediation to hold the weight of the panels, otherwise a roof replacement will be needed within the solar panel lifespan which presents additional cost and complexity to the work.
Additionally schools are only using power on weekdays for 39 weeks of the year, so nearly half the year (including the 6 weeks of summer) they’re generating solar power they won’t use, which has impacts on the national grid.

I agree that schools do need to have air conditioning or some kind of climate control, but heat is difficult to manage in old buildings and there isn’t a quick or straightforward solution.

In parts of France, they're closing the schools in the afternoon during the heatwave. It's a good idea I think! Kids still get half day of learning.

What is "learning walked"? And why can't an educational establishment come up with a term that is less grammatically clunky?!

I agree with you @DancingThroughLife02
My classroom can get scorching in the summer, but I have a lot of freedom to manage it. We can go outside on the shady lawn for lessons, fill water as much as we like, abandon the lesson plan to do something else, and the students wear their own clothes - no hot blazers etc.
It’s not perfect. Sometimes it’s not practical to go outside and so we find some fans for the classroom. If lots of students are outside at the same time, we have to make sure different classes don’t distract each other.
But, it’s a shame that all schools can’t be this flexible. We are a relatively small secondary school (500) - maybe this makes a difference?

I mean, I could get my Y10s to do a bit of colouring in instead of some maths but it certainly seems like a pointless waste of everyone's time.

No, in some hot countries that's absolutely the case, certainly in bigger towns and cities. But not all.