Should schools be closed at 35°C?

[DancingThroughLife02]

Not really an AIBU but looking ahead at the forecast for next week and it’s looking like a scorcher.

I work in a secondary school in a science classroom (which seems to get extra hot during practicals) and we have no fans or AC or anything at all to keep the children cool. Open windows don’t seem to help much. The thermostat in the classroom got above 30°C in the afternoon.

The children need to have their water bottles filled at break times and lunch times only and are not allowed to fill them during lessons - which I disagree with as so many come to me saying that they didn’t get a chance to fill theirs up in the 20 minute lunch break.

Last week I had children saying they were dizzy and feeling sick, and they’re made to go outside during breaks. I’m also not sure that anything I taught them during the extra hot days actually stuck in anyway as they all seemed melted onto the desks.

I know there is a legal lower temperature limit for classrooms/workplaces but maybe with the increasing summer temperatures over the last few years we need to start considering investing in ACs as the heat in summer seems to be more prolonged than a couple hot days and in the meantime consider health and safety of the students (and teachers as even I was beginning to feel a bit dizzy).

One doesn’t even own its own field or have a playground as such they have to use the college. Which is set up for those who can leave site.

We have almost no shade. Perhaps enough for 20 kids. What shade do you propose we could arrange by Wednesday for the other 450 others?

Also, I said parents would be better able to meet needs. Obviously we can and will try to manage in school.

Signs of heat exhaustion are:

• tiredness
• dizziness
• headache
• feeling sick (nausea) or being sick (vomiting)
• excessive sweating and skin becoming pale and clammy (a change in skin colour can be harder to see on brown or black skin)
• cramps in the arms, legs and stomach
• a high temperature
• being very thirsty
• feeling irritable

Most of us are going to be tired, thirsty, hot and irritable, especially by Thursday.

I strongly believe that a parent who knows their child better and who only has a few to manage would be better able to spot when their child is tipping from uncomfortable to unwell.

I am a professional and care about the children in my care and will do my utmost.

But I think people minimising the scale of the challenge are being actively detrimental to this week (and future similar weeks) being managed for the best outcome for the nation's children.

If South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia all think these are temperatures worthy of note, why don't we?

My work sometimes sends us home early in really hot weather.

What has always struck me on here was that children in many schools are made to keep blazers on in hot weather. That is absolutely ridiculous and harmful.

I have found that old-fashioned fans, the half-circle paper or cloth type, are amazingly efficient. Much better than battery-operated handheld fans. The old half-circle type creates a much greater sweep of air over you - admittedly, you do have to move it yourself - but they are great, especially if you give your face a spritz of water first. They don't run out of power and fold up really thin. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways!

Next week I would definitely send my child to school with one of those fans and a spray bottle, if I had school-aged children.

@PumpkinSoupIsBetterThanYouThink

Yes I agree that most people are not going to come up with solutions by this Thursday but this is a long term problem and probably these temperatures are here to stay and some serious thought needs to be given to it. Not just let’s send the children home. Maybe the school calendar needs to be changed? Temperatures usually drop off in the second half of August and the days are getting shorter.

So many people missing the point.

Yes children do go to school in hotter places, but they are used to the higher temps and the temps usually rise gradually.

The UK is not equiped for the higher temps and it is a significant increase in temp over a short period of time.

In UK school, if you are lucky, there maybe one fan per class, that's only going to help the lucky 4 people sat nearest to it.

Windows do not open fully. They let in no breeze.

You can't have the doors open because of the noise and many are fire safety doors.

There are upto 40 people in the class, this raises the temp even more.

The children are hot, sticky and uncomfortable, they are grumpy and no learning gets done.

They will all be sent outside at breaks and there will not be enough shade outside for everyone.

Children are easily affected by heat, especially the younger ones. You send more time dealing with children complaining they feel, sick, dizzy etc than you do teaching.

Some of them will turn up in unsuitable clothing, with no sunhats or suncream.

It's bloody miserable for everyone.

Best things I did was tinfoil the windows.
Put the tinfoil on cardboard (shiny side facing out) and attached the cardboard to the outside of the windows. This stops the heating hitting the glass and significantly lowers the temperature inside.

You can attach the tinfoil to the window on the inside, but it won't be as affective.

Good luck op, I feel your pain.

Ours doesn't. Almost no shade. School is only about 12 years old, no cover, no proper trees or overhangs or canopies, just a few little trees that won't grow large on purpose (safety) that provide enough shade for a tiny fraction of our triple intake. Other local schools are similar. There is no where to hide from the sun and the inside of the building is not fit for purpose when it comes to cooling.

Basically, the UK is continuing to build buildings for climates of generations past, not the current or future climate.

Absolutely agree.

We need to recognise there are two separate debates:

(1) What is the right thing to do for children next week?
(2) What is the right thing long term?

I personally do not think the right answer to either is that we require children tough it out.

Do you have any trees outside you can all go and sit under? They used to do that at my daughter's school when it was hot.
Windows that open a few inches at the top and bottom, good blinds and fans would help.

Only two trees outside for whole large school (and sometimes their shade is thrown outside the school anyway).

Am on the third floor - concrete buildings on all sides. Windows partially open, blinds partially cover.

Last week, the seats in my back row were unbearable in the afternoon. I sat there to try. The bottom part of the window has no blind and is at child height, south facing...

The blinds are thin.

Only the medical room and music room have a fan.

@mullers1977 I know you mean well but I teach in a 1250 populated school - all concrete playground, no field, 4 floors. The blinds I do have been ripped and pulled down because some teens like to trash stuff so then it doesn’t get replaced. There’s a massive difference between primary and secondary and schools that have under a thousand pupils to nearly 3k. I think that’s what some people see teachers as “moaning”. We’re not - just very concerned for the students in our care who will be exposed to temps of 40+ when factoring body temps and heat rising.

How is that going to help my primary aged children next week in potentially temperatures of 39 degrees. They do not have AC but they are allowing them to wear PE kits, that's really going to make a difference in classrooms and corridors that are like ovens.

Is it a primary (sorry you’ve probably said) - if it is it’s could buy strong fans. can you request to teach in the music room when it’s not used … uk are not set up for this hear, my son comes home with a migraine, what must the teachers feel like x

Nope, kids shouldn’t miss school and neither should teachers.

Even if the poster was happy spending their own money on fans, they wouldn't be allowed to be used due to the lack of PAT testing.

I have read all 17 pages and I’m sick of seeing goady fuckers who are basing their pontificating on their experiences of over half a century ago.

The music room has the fan as it is probably the hottest room in school. It is pretty much in constant use. (We are a very, very big school)

I am not sure that it should be me that got the fan even if it were free. I would want to prioritise classes with the most vulnerable children.

The problem is the cost of maintaining trees comes out of school budgets. I've got a school I work with who have had a tree blow down and it cost £5000 to have it dealt with. £5000 the evil had earmarked for something else.

Absolutely crazy.

At my children's school, the caretaker PAT tested, but you can also get someone to do it fairly cheaply. If the PTA bought a few fans, it would be easy to get them tested if the caretaker couldn't - you can hire people through TaskRabbit. When I was involved in the pta we would buy things ourselves to stop it having to go through school bureaucracy

Also councils sell off school playgrounds and playing fields.

If South Africa, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia all think these are temperatures worthy of note, why don't we?

there’s some weird British exceptionalism that these temps are nothing unusual and we should carry on as normal. That a few fans will sort it or take a class of kids to sit outside under a tree when it’s 36 degrees out (I’m sure the Met office are telling people to stay inside 🤷‍♀️). We wouldn’t tell any other groups susceptible to heat exhaustion to do this.

Only radical school building re-design or mass installation AC is going to make classrooms useable on hot days. I think we are in denial as a nation about the investment needed to cope with hotter temps and the changes to work and school days to allow people to cope.

I think unfortunately we’ll have to just deal with a few faints tomorrow and hope no one gets hurt… I would have thought that parents would have more concern over their children’s wellbeing than to insist they go in and make themselves sick for the sake of not having to get childcare for a few days. It’s no wonder there’s no respect for teachers when in reality parents don’t care what happens at school as long as their children aren’t in their care for 6 hours just so they can work.

I do appreciate that things are difficult financially but this is coming from a place of genuine concern and safeguarding. Councils really need to do more to adapt to the new climate as this has happened for weeks over the last few years, it’s not just a hot week or two anymore.

Im sure the pta would buy for all classrooms if they are able. or at least all those on the top floors, it might be worth seeing if there are any unallocated funds

I don't mean to be negative and it probably seems like I am. But I think that it is really easy to think that things that are easy on a household level are easy on a large scale.

Some British schools are now HUGE.

I think our school would need at least 50 - 60 fans to meet everyone's needs. It is not a "few".

I have been on the PTA and that kind of expenditure would need to go through a proper approval process, if we could even get hold of them.

It is certainly the case that this needs to be thought through and sorted out going forward. It will not be by this week though.