AIBU to think a man accused of throwing a child into a crocodile enclosure should not get bail?

[YourKeenOliveNewt]

Aibu to think the man who threw an unknown 3 year old into a crocodile enclosure shouldn't be out on bail?

If anyone could provide any insight into the reasoning behind why was granted bail I would be very interested to hear it.

AIBU: He's a danger to society
AINBU: Innocent until proven guilty

My point is that if this bit gets fucked up it benefits no one.
If they dont bail him now for the right assessments then the strict clock they have to charge him runs out and they are screwed.
If it comes back he can be interviewed then great, then interview him but if you do it before then, you end up with loads of evidence you cant even mention in court

Any cheap solicitor would have a field day at trial and get it thrown out.

That's the worst outcome. No consequences in terms of secure care etc, and no justice for the family.

Victims having to repeatedly go through appeals, re testify etc is incredibly stressful.

Its important for the family that there is no technicality left to result in a bad outcome

You have no idea if he tried to kill. That suggests motive and an understanding of his actions. Both of which he may not have.

Did you really just use the phrase "the most appropriate nuthouse"? As someone who has close relatives who have spent time in psychiatric units I find that deeply offensive and actually quote upsetting.

@RichardMarxisinnocent, try not to take it to heart. That poster has lead a very privileged and sheltered existence and has never met anyone with profound learning disability or with severe mental illness. They understand precious little about any of this. 💐

I have spent time in them myself.
I can also say that they would not be a suitable place for someone with severe LD (although I have been inpatient before with people with less severe LD with co-morbid MH conditions hence why they were there as you can treat MH, not LD... if that makes sense!).

Impact is more important than intent.

Yes that's a good point that they actually wouldn't be suitable for someone with severe LD.

I can assure you, I most certainly have

Oh sure 😉

We don't know that your first example is accurate there. So no, we can't trust that there is this obvious difference so now the right thing will happen. It's exactly my point that people willing to blame this on 'the system' are also scornful of anyone who has doubts that 'the system' will now be prioritising public safety. It didn't happen before, so why would it now? And we can't say 'because he didn't pose a threat before'. Maybe he did, and some of the negligent staff who were allegedly on their phones were also negligent on that score.

One of the points that I was trying to hint at earlier in my (admittedly very long that most people probably didn't read) post earlier, is that this poster may have been a victim of someone with severe learning disabilities, has felt let down by the justice system and left feeling unsafe, and is now angry and bitter to see someone who is, in her eyes, "getting away with" doing something awful.

I do not agree with her posts one bit. But don't be so quick to judge by saying they must have led a perfect happy life, you don't know what they've experienced and been through. They could just be frightened.

If you seriously believe that, after this, the system will allow this man out in public places, you are fantasising. Other issues apart, it's almost certainly a condition of bail that he does not go out of the secure home where he is held.

Released on bail just means not in police custody. I know this has already been said on this thread many many pages ago.

He can be on bail, and still in a secure facility.

In any event he isn't just roaming the streets is he if he was previously assessed as needing 2:1 care. He is probably being held in his care facility whilst adult social care and social services reassess risk and work out what the best way is to keep him secured, the public safe whilst still meeting his needs.

Did you read the lady's long post earlier about her DIL?
She had her jaw fractured while pregnant, punched, kicked and threatened to have her baby "cut out of her and shown to her before she kills her"
Shortly after, she's back out on the streets to attack and old man with a golf club.
Dangerous people are let back out all the time.
You're delulu if you think otherwise

Fear isn't an excuse for some of pp's comments. It's understandable to be afraid, especially after a bad experience and it is understandable to question the system after something awful like this happening.

It's quite another thing to do what pp has continued to do.

You're not far wrong

He could need two carer because he’s known to run off, or has epilepsy, or maybe he was there with other people and it was two carers for 3/4 residents. You have no idea the circumstances or the history and honestly it feels cruel to speculate

No-one is suggesting that this man should be allowed to wander around free.

If he is not capable of forming the intent to kill or injure someone seriously, he is to capable of committing a crime.

For someone with, it would appear, some sort of religious belief, you are coming over as extraordinarily intolerant. Matthew 28:21-22 obvioiusly has no place in your bible.

No, it isn't an excuse

But fear, and anger, and feelings of frustration about being let down as a victim, and seeing your attacker walking free, (having been told that because of their disability noone knows how to handle them so they've simply been set free, only to attack again) all does funny things to people.

My DIL is lucky enough to have an excellent support network and has come out on the other side well, and isn't prejudiced although she is still angry about the lack of care and justice.
Not everyone has that support. And some people have suffered worse.

I'm just saying, I'm not sure how helpful it is to be saying the PP has obviously led a nice, happy, privileged life and never come across a person with learning disabilities.

Would you say the same if the mum of the three year old was on here, angrily saying similar things?

Being remanded in custody simply would not be appropriate in this case. It has been reported that this man was being escorted by 2 caretakers, prisons do not have provisions to keep someone with extremely complex needs and other prisoners safe. This will be a very complicated case and finding who is or isnt partially culpable could take months.

No but there's a reason the system isnt run by the mum of the three year old. Its not their job to be sane at rationale

I mentioned earlier (that got a snarky response!) that ive been part of diverting people out of custody. I imagine it seems terrible to the family, but I have done so out of a want to get things right for them. Ive seen the consequences of when evidence becomes inadmissable, when convictions get overturned and when victims having to keep coming back to relive it over and over again.

Its not the victims job to understand that, but people might have to do things they disagree with for the greater good

There's a reason it has to be slightly removed people that actually do the work and fix things

I'd still be angry in your DIL's situation too. I'm so sorry that she had to go through that.

pp does come across as not having any experience with someone with learning disabilities but I can also appreciate it may stem from a bad experience and doesn't necessarily mean that.

I agree that the comment wasn't helpful but pp's rants are hardly helpful either and are going to cause reactions such as that.

I'd understand the mum's anger and no, I wouldn't say the same to her when it actually involves her child. I've had a child in critical condition and that fear will always stay with me. It's also a reason why the parents or the victims themselves don't decide what should happen.

I would say, and I don't know, I could be way off the mark, that there's some evidence on this thread that the PP has experienced something bad at the hands of a person with learning disabilities who may not have faced justice. It's subtle as she obviously doesn't want to talk about it, but it's there.
She's angry, she's heavily invested, she's lashing out harshly and it's getting increasingly worse as though she likes being heard, when asked if she was OK she said she really isn't, when I suggested she might have been through something similar to my DIL she said I wasn't far wrong.

She probably doesn't deserve it, but maybe tread a bit more gently. Not just you.

And @Temporaryusernamename if I am wrong, I apologise and if I am correct and you want to talk, please message me.

Some other people on this thread will have their own experiences too, including close relationships with people who have 2:1 and/or have learning disabilities and are also reacting to pp's comments based on that.