Zoos are cruel....

[Ihateboris]

And should be banned. It's just so sad seeing animals cooped up, just for the pleasure of selfish human beings.

I know for example Chester zoo had a very elderly chimp who died recently. Lived far in excess of the lifespan in the wild.

Have you ever taken lsd and taken a trip to the zoo? Well I have and it’s the saddest thing ever. You are way more attuned and connected with the world around you and I felt incredibly sad looking at them.

feel free to laugh at me, I was young !

Ever heard the phrase about quality over quantity?

Would you like to live a life where you had 8 children and half your children died before the age of 5? That's a natural life and it's not always good quality.

Yes!!! Some humans suffer for far too
long because of modern medicine.

So absolutely no recent references at all? No hard facts or data referenced since 2010?

No data relating to the FoIs they apparently carried out?

So no, I wouldn’t assume it’s true, or reflective of modern conservation zoos.

That’s not to say there are some places in the UK which don’t prioritise animal welfare, but that article doesn’t prove anything.

good zoos play an important role in conservation including funding projects in the wild. They also animals in rehabilitation or not fit for release. We longer capture wild animals to bring to show in zoos and animals are treated very well.

How about elephants? https://www.bornfree.org.uk/elephant-free-uk/

That was my thoughts too. No info at all. Hard to prove anything if your evidence is just a wink and saying "oh, we know".

Each to their own. This view is predicated though on the view that everything is ok with wild environments and sadly this is not true.

It’s also predicated on the point of view that a “natural” life is superior in every way, which of course it can be, but it can be also be a fight for diminishing basic resources such as food and water and a struggle against appalling disease.

The chimp I'm thinking of was called Boris. Boris lived to be 57.

From Google - Boris was rescued from a New York pet shop as an orphaned infant in the late 1960s, raised briefly in a Manhattan apartment, and brought to the zoo in 1969. Over his decades at the zoo, he fathered 22 offspring, played a pivotal role in the international conservation breeding program for western chimpanzees

There was never a life in the wild available for Boris. He wouldn't have been able to integrate back into the wild without his family. At Chester he was part of a family of chimps, with access to outdoors, received good food and medical care and had a friendly relationship with his keeper. He had as good a quality of life as many people in the world and better than some.

The alternative to captivity in a good zoo for Boris would be to be kept in a poor zoo or private collection or euthanasia as an infant.

From your link:

‘Back then, [1993] there were 20 zoos in the UK keeping around 50 elephants, of which 44 had been taken from the wild. Sadly, in spite of expert reports, campaigns, petitions and parliamentary debates, nothing much has changed. Today, there are still 49 elephants in nine zoos across the UK.’

So fewer zoos have elephants - which is what they want. Given the life span of captive elephants is around 50 these days, I’d suggest hardly any are additions to the 50 there were in 1993! 5 are at Whipsnade which is arguably the best in the country.

They are pretty specific figures. Got anything to back that up?
Life in a natural environment is tough. It needs to be. That's how populations remain healthy.
But yes, given the choice of a natural one or one in a zoo, I'd take the former any day of the week.
Just had a quick look at the Chester chimp. A tragic story and Chester zoo was clearly not the worst place he could have ended up. But I do question whether a chimp with an unknown genetic history - he was rescued from a New York pet shop apparently and brought up in Manhattan - should really have sired 22 young. Not sure it was in his best interests and potentially not the future of chimps in that area.

Took too long to write post. My whole point is people should not be in charge of other animals' lives. Of course the Chester chimp could not be released into the wild. The point is he should never have been put in the position he was in the first place. And while it's nice to think he had a good life at Chester zoo, we don't really know that that was the case. We disrespect animals when we think we know what is best for them.

It's fairy well documented that pre modern medicine approximately half of all children born died before the age of 5 and mothers had much larger families than today.

Oh I thought you were talking about chimps.
That's getting two issues confused, sorry.
But I suggest you take a look at the elderly parents threads. Try telling them that modern medicine is a universally good thing.

No, no we don't.

Agree and I strongly believe that some zoos do foster a life long love of animals and their conservation in some children who live in inner cities; I know it did in me.

But do other animals needs our love or our respect? I'd say the latter. Respect them enough to stay our of their areas, to not take too much of their land, to not take too much of their food, to not destroy or pollute their environments and respect them enough to not lock them up in cages to satisfy people's curiosity.

Didn't anyone visit London Zoo in the late 70s early 80s? I know it's not like that now, but watching an obviously distressed elephant, Pole Pole, during a school visit in '79 was heartbreaking. They didnt attempt to rescue/move her until '83, which had a disastrous outcome.

It absolutely coloured how I feel about zoos.

That was 45 years ago. Is it not possible thigs have moved on since then?

That’s awful!! The penguins in The Sea Life Aquarium in London is incredibly cruel. They are kept in a windowless basement. They are now going to be moved due to pressure from MPs and animal welfare campaigners. The penguins have endured about 15 years living like this.

Obviously things have moved on. I guess lessons have been learnt. But animals still die, unnecessarily, in zoos, just in different ways.

I imagine things are better but there is no way human beings can create a suitable environment for a herd of elephants to live in a city. To think we can is sheer insanity or more likely just another example of human arrogance (not meant to poster personally).

If things had moved on, there would be no animals living in captivity!!! Captive breeding rarely results in successful reintroduction into the wild.

Terribly cruel, especially if a crocodile eats your child! I don’t really like zoos or wildlife parks as I would prefer to see these animals in their native habitat. Conservation is their main aim these days which is to be commended. I do love to eat meat though.