AIBU - Men should not be allowed to adopt or foster children unless they're with a woman. Safeguarding first.

[RedQuail4]

I know this will get the "bigot" and "not all men" brigade out in force, but can we please talk about actual child protection instead of feelings and equality checkboxes?

Children in care are already some of the most vulnerable kids in the country. They've often been abused, neglected, or come from chaotic backgrounds. The state has a duty to place them in the safest possible environment, not to use them as a social experiment for adult rights or to prove how progressive we are.

Look at the data on who harms children. The vast majority of serious physical and sexual abuse is committed by males. Single male households show higher risks in the statistics for child abuse, domestic violence exposure, and poorer outcomes in some studies. Women aren't perfect (far from it), but the biological and statistical reality is that men pose a higher risk, especially without a female partner in the home. A woman in the household often acts as a natural safeguard - someone who is more likely to notice, intervene, or report concerning behaviour.

We've seen too many tragic cases where single men (or gay men with access to children without proper oversight) have gone on to abuse fostered or adopted kids. Social services and adoption agencies are under huge pressure to find placements, so corners get cut and "inclusive" policies mean they bend over backwards to approve single men. The child's safety should trump everything.

Why are we gambling with kids who already lost the lottery once?

Adoption and fostering aren't a right for adults. They're not about giving men a purpose or validating lifestyles. They're about finding the most suitable, lowest-risk home for damaged children. A stable married couple (or at least a man with a woman in the home) should be the gold standard. Single women? Fine, the evidence supports they generally manage better. Single men? A male couple? No. The risk profile is different.

If a man wants to parent, he can find a wife first. Harsh? Maybe. But we're talking about other people's traumatised children, not virtue-signalling or men's feelings. Safeguarding isn't prejudice - it's pattern recognition.

This isn't about hating men. It's about not ignoring sex-based patterns in crime and abuse data when placing vulnerable kids. Same reason we don't put male staff in every girls' changing room. Thoughts? Am I being unreasonable?

What about when a man has been widowed just after the birth of a baby? Should he have to give the baby up?

I agree OP.

Children should not be used as tools to make gay men feel more accepted and included. Marry all you like, but don’t bring the children into this.

And before the hysterical lot start screaming “homophobe!!”, answer this honestly- How many of you would feel comfortable with a single straight man adopting a child? It’s not about sexuality, it’s about gender and statistical analysis

A unrelated (by blood) man/men have no business raising a child. It goes against nature.

YANBU

Of course not. That is his child and an unavoidable tragedy.

Completely different to a planned adoption by 2 men.

You said that women are able to raise a child alone without input from the father but that men are not capable of this?

Yes. Truth.

Women, biologically only need men at conception, though if course a healthy family is preferable.

A man cannot gestate a baby. A man cannot feed a baby from his breast. And in general I do not believe MOST men are capable of successfully raising children alone.
Women are.

Surely gay men are being used as tools to place children in care?
Up to 25% of adopted children go to same sex couples, because same sex couple are more likely to put themselves forward.
Where would all those children go?

Where would all those children go?

To the lesbians or foster care. Both statistically safer than being with two unrelated men.

Is foster care statistically safer than adoption by men?

https://www.thefosteringnetwork.org.uk/news/crisis-in-foster-care-continues-as-new-figures-show-major-shortfall-in-carers/

Now, a shortage in carers is no reason to skip safeguarding checks/relax standards. But it is madness to say only lesbian's, or only women not in relationships with men can foster/adopt. Or even only lesbian/heterosexual couples can adopt. Because there is a shortage of people willing/able to foster/adopt already. There isnt a huge waiting list of man avoidant lesbians who.could look after the thousands of children needing care safely and away from males.

"To The Lesbians" is not a viable plan.

It does not make you sound unhinged in my opinion. I would not have sent either of mine to a nursery employing male childcare staff. DH feels very strongly about this issue, and it is indeed very different from primary teaching or Cubs etc when we are dealing with children who cannot speak and who are having nappies changed.

There have been many more threads historically here about posters sharing how they've been totally messed up by their mother in their childhood and how it is seriously affecting their lives as an adult than posts about SA from their father.

Women are not exempt from abusing their children. It's different and more prolonged, psychological and emotional, but the damage can be very significant too.

I can't help but wonder how many of these abusive mothers hated men too!

Interesting because whilst anecdotal I was safe with my dad who never so much as shouted at me but at home with my mum and her boyfriend, forget it. He beat me and it transpired also her, he hid that well and I had no idea till she told me last year. Anyway she never protected me so living with a woman didn’t make me safe.

It’s really embarrassing that women cannot accept that men are more dangerous.

We all know they are.

But ‘women do the same’ and ‘Myra hindley’ overrule known human history. What absolute rubbish.

I think so going by the responses of people who feel this way. I think she woukdnt be allowed in the unsupervised company of her father.

We dont have to look to Myra Hindley to prove women murder kids too.

Or at least are unwilling or unable to prioritise the safety and wellbeing of their child(ren) over keeping their partner.

So if a heterosexual couple adopt a baby and then the mother dies three years later, should the baby be put back in the foster care system or stay with their adoptive father?

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CazHKFfDf/

A lot of your kids here would be lucky to have this man as a father instead of the guy you gave them that ultimately made you hate men

I absolutely accept that women are safer than men for children. What I also observe though is that women are often terrible at protecting their children from dangerous men. It's single mums with new partners that seem to me to be the most dangerous household for children. Even in nice middle class Mumsnet there are multiple threads from women about how to get their children to stop hating the strange man she's forcing them to live with.

So if we're going to start legislating against certain types of family set ups I'd argue children living with step dads is where to start. Purely by the numbers that will save far more children from abuse. It's the presence of men that's the danger factor not the lack of a woman. So banning gay male couples makes no sense to me unless we're also banning straight couples.

Yes that’s a fair enough point. TBH I’m stopping short of forming a hard opinion myself on the original Op question. It seems a step too far for me, even though I’m very aware of male violence. But it’s depressing just how willing women are to be as misogynistic as men, in the face of all our knowledge.

I’d rather see a death penalty come back for clear cut cases of guilt in crimes that are beyond redemption, with a bloody high burden of proof to seek such a sentence. There’s a lot of people crowing about what will await these scum in prison. If that’s what we want then take some responsibility for it.

Quite frankly, for the OP and posters on here who know the 'truth' - I think it's disgusting that you or anyone you know could have children, and that with this safeguarding knowledge you have that you have messed around with a man and brought them into a world where they have a father. You've given a man access to a child! With knowing how dangerous they are. Awful.

Sillyness like this just completely breaks down any credibility to your argument.

If you cannot cope with debate maybe stop posting here.

Men are important figures in children's lives. Its always preferable for a child to have a stable mother/father family dynamic. Of course that isn't always possible. Relationship breakdowns, death, abuse etc

But humans and most creatures are designed for a male and female to come together, reproduce and raise a child. A lot of the time in nature that burden is left to the mother.

Very rarely does the male of the species take full responsibility for a baby.

It's just nature and I don't see how that should ben offensive, to say the way that nature intended a child to be brought into this world is best.

Gay men shouldn't be able to rent a womb or adopt and foster. I just don't believe it.

I don't trust men. You cannot trust all women either but I GUARANTEE that if all you women saying 'but, but,but....' were in an emergency situation and there were 2 cars with only room for a child on a lap, one full of women, one full of men, every single one of you would pass your children to the women.

Rubbish. There’s loads of evil women out there who should never be allowed to adopt children. Myra Hindley, Rose West, Maxine Carr. Just because you’re a woman, it doesn’t mean you’re not capable of heinous crimes.

@Plimfoot but if you don't trust men, why do you allow them to care for children? Why would you reproduce with them knowing they could fight for custody if you separate?
Honestly the rhetoric in here is awful.