Fabswingers, facilitators of sex crimes

[IberianLynx]

AIBU to think that sites like fabswingers should be taken down? There will be 100s of stories like this one. Now that the government is rightly tacking protection of children using the internet, how about also taking steps to protect women.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87q7g48y4po

I've just listened to her excellent podcast on bbc sounds

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0nqywd0?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

It really unearthed issues around the depravity of many men and of the issue of consent.

I absolutely applaud Ruth O'Grady for sharing her story.

Obviously it’s horrendous but I don’t think you can pin this on the website

Thanks for the podcast tip @NelferchyLlyn . There was an actress on a startrek show years ago who claimed something similar in her divorce. There will always be people who dont understand coercion, but I also think it's right and brave that women speak out about this.

she was having sex with multiple men a week, Ruth says, sometimes as many as four in a day.

Regardless of anything else, how on earth did she manage the logistics?

I’m most of the way through binging the podcast. I’ll be interested to see where it lands at the end.

I do think the main issue with this website is that it is the biggest, the oldest, the longest established and perhaps the most focused on heterosexual couples? Meaning there are potentially far more profiles where men are trawling for other men ‘on behalf of’ their wives. I’m sure there are similar issues on every hookup site, but there might not be the same numbers. The FOI they made asking for crimes specifically naming Fabswingers was jaw dropping.

I wonder what a similar review of Grindr and Feeld would show.

I'm not quite sure what to think really because if they take that site down, people will just move onto another.

And if they ban swinging sites completely to protect women, they'll have to ban billions of escort sites too.

What was the name of the French website Dominique Pelicot used - Without Her Knowledge was it? Even the title references a crime.

ww don't need to ban things to make people aware of them and their potential harm

The podcast interviews several swingers estimating that half to 65% of women involved don’t want to be there. I think it would be good to promote that figure, to reduce the normalisation of it.

I think the bigger issue rather than focusing/blaming a website is why the men & couples who were meeting the woman were not ensuring they had HER explicit consent before engaging in any sort of sexual activity?

Always so feminist to equate women with children.

Fabswingers absolutely needs taking down, I reported my ex for posting intimate pictures without permission. They claimed because I wasn’t identifiable (face covered by an emoji) that the pictures would be kept on the site and ex is free to carry on. The way they deal with issues like this is horrendous and I dread to think how many more women are going through this hell, that they may be aware of.

I won’t listen to the podcast as I know it will anger me too much.

Always so naive to believe because women should have the strength, financial power and logistical support to walk out of a marriage the day their husband crosses a line, all women do have the strength, financial power and logistical support to walk out of a marriage the day their husband crosses a line.

Always so naive to believe that because men shouldn't pressurise and emotionally abuse women to break them, men don't pressurise and emotionally abuse women to break them.

Always so naive to believe that despite all the women saying how they were pressurised into sexual acts they would rather not do, somehow women are not in fact being pressurised into sexual acts they would rather not do.

Seems like for some people, one happy hooker story or one sunny swinger story or one economically excited escort story carries more weight than any number of women having less joyful experiences.

swinging existed long before the internet,

Yes, so did rape. It was, however, logistically more difficult to recruit troops of anonymous male strangers to rape your wife before the internet.

Again, based on the podcast so far it would seem reasonable for websites that are making vast amounts of money from said activities to have some kind of accountability and openness about the crimes involved. Whereas fabswingers has a schtick about how it’s just a bunch of like-minded volunteers doing the site in their spare time, honest guv.

I’ve met people off Fabswingers and other hookup sites tbh. I’m not sure I would do it again (even if dp weren’t around).

In three in
sounds more like just abuse and mental illness. The fabswinger bit is tangential

This woman is so brave for speaking out. That takes guts and she’s gone through a lot of trauma.

I’m not so sure the website is to blame for basically existing, ideally there would be ways for them to better safe guard people using it. But the big problem here is, as always, men. Specifically, abusive, manipulative men and men who apparently don’t have a problem literally raping a woman while her husband/partner/other people watch. Unfortunately there is a frightening number of evil men who prey on women and they will always find a way. This site might be a handy tool to go about it but it’s not the reason for it.

From listening to the podcast today (I had a day of work and I was redecorating/DIY so listened to the whole thing).

The premise of the podcast is that it isnt swinging that is the issue but the use of the website, fab swingers, that makes it so easily for men to use it to abuse women. There are no guardrails and the website dont appear to be bothered to instal any.

*edited as posted halfway through the messagr in error

Agreed. Protection of people should be a higher priority than enabling people to get their rocks off.

I mean, I'd be perfectly happy for it to be banned, but it won't really solve the problem because more websites will just pop up, and if these websites get banned completely, they'll just pop up on the dark web, which is trivially easy to access, so I'm not sure how useful a ban would be.

Absolutely disgusting, this is happening. I had no idea, and I've been horrified listening to the podcast.

I was a swinger (with my lover) for a while when I was younger. This is not swinging, it is pure sexual abuse.

I agree, and IME, swingers sre usually better than your average bloke on OLD at consent and accepting a no.

But there are definitely couples where one partner is into it and the other isn't, and way too many blokes who will take advantage of this. I have also had to explain to my then partner that just because he fancies the woman, it doesn't mean i fancy her husband (and the women are, on average, better turned out than the men.) Most clubs don't let single blokes in, and it's not difficult to work out why.

Having heard all the episodes, I definitely think Fab could have done/do more to protect users. It's all very well starting off as a voluntary thing, but I think once you get to a certain size, you need to take your website more seriously and responsibly - and if you're making money from it, you should have the resources to do it professionally. (I've not had an account there myself, so I can't fully judge.)

Maybe we could just actually punish men for abusing women and teach boys not to abuse women . Rather than ban the internet? It's like banning women from going after dark. Or banning women from drinking tea lest you be drugged and raped by your own husband.

You can't just ban a website because it enables rapists and abusers to access victims. So long as rapists and abusers are allowed to exist among us they will access victims.

I also don’t see this as a website issue and I think it would be impossible for the website to fully protect against it. What would they need to do. Keep interviewing each woman on her own, be able to tell when she was lying. Ie like this lady displaying enthusiasm.

the issue is it’s simply a platform for abusers to use. If it wasn’t this, it would be something else. You don’t even need a platform. They can go dogging, advertise discreetly. Even find men down the pub.

a major part of this particular situation is Ruth herself often looked for the men, by her own admission appeared enthusiastic. No one knew whay was going on behind closed doors. About her mental health

on saying that though, if up to 65 percent of women on there don’t want to be, that’s a huge bloody number, and how do they know it is that high.Because if the members know. Then so should the platform. And they need to get that sorted.

but then if two thirds of the woman dropped out. The site would be way less successful, so potentially success over safety going on here.

i personally don’t think many women really want to do this, some yes, but a minority.i think this swinging thing is mainly a male desire. Again not alasts but I’d say it’s mostly weirdo men driving it. And certainly few women want to do it to the extent of 4 men a day. Thays a clear indication something is very wrong.