AIBU to make excuses for dd’s mean friend?

[queenceleste]

Dd has a “friendship” group in 6th form that has been together since year 8 with some personnel changes. One of the group has always been fairly snarky to my dd. It’s always been presented as teasing but the impact on dd is very negative. Of course she needs to work towards better friends but this group holds people she is hugely invested including this girl who is sometimes a good mate.
I tend to excuse the mean behaviour because this girl has a challenging home life at the moment, a very unwell younger sibling and parents mid divorce.
Does that make her treatment of my dd acceptable? To excuse it or at least explain it? Of course my dd should just change groups but that is not at all easy - if it were then she would do it. Does this home life excuse this girl’s mean behaviour? Dd is wary of directly confronting this girl as she is sort of protected by this situation.

What are you doing ir saying to excuse her? At this age I think the appropriate action is being a sounding board for your teen, not saying "yes but,.."

I don't think it excuses it as even people going through a hard time are still accountable for their behaviour but yes I'd say it explains it.

That's what I'd be saying to your dd while also telling her that she doesn't need to tolerate it if it becomes too much.

I think young people aren't going to be equipped to handle big life challenges like the ones you've mentioned perfectly (few of us are) so a bit of grace and understanding can go a long way. However your priority is to your dd above all else so I'd be pushing her towards other friends and trying to build her self esteem while rationalising for her that this girl is hurting and this behaviour is reflective of that and not actually to do with your dd.

One caveat to that would be if this behaviour has always been the case including before the parents marriage broke down and the sibling became unwell. Because sometimes people are just bullies irregardless of circumstances.

If you say the impact on your dd is significant and negative then why not speak to the school. They both clearly need support with this..

I’m not saying it to her any more at all. I’m just trying to support dd through this year in one piece.

I just feel as if my dd has become someone who this girl takes her anger out on and I want to find a rationale for it. My dd is fairly stuck in this group so she needs strategies. I’ve always found it easier if there is a reason or explanation for someone being nasty to other people.

What sort of things is she saying to your daughter (or doing) to make her feel bad?

My daughter had a friend who started being awful to her around sixth form. I hundred percent supported my daughter and didn’t make any excuses for the girl. Her behaviour was mean, and damaged my girl’s confidence, and I told my daughter that it was mean and unacceptable.

A few years down the line, the girl stopped being nasty, my daughter has forgiven her. However, I will hold a grudge against this girl for the rest of my life.😏

I think it's one thing to help your daughter understand where the behaviour is coming from and another to excuse it. Hurt people can hurt people, sure, but that doesn't mean your daughter has to just put up with it. She shouldn't be encouraged to be someone's emotional punch bag. I would work with your daughter on how to hold some firm boundaries.

Thank you for this reply Lavender. It’s a good point. I think dd has tended to see the behaviour as banter so maybe it’s been hard for us to unpick what the real dynamic is.
I wish she would directly call it out but I can’t see that happening now. Just a year to go and the hope of healthier friendship groups in the future!

Thanks for all these replies.

I find it hard to be rational about it when she’s so unhappy. But she’s also a fighter which is maybe why it’s gone on so long and she hasn’t been defeated.

In which case I think I'd ask what the others do to manage it.

I just feel as if my dd has become someone who this girl takes her anger out on and I want to find a rationale for it

i can’t understand this at all. She’s taking it out on DD because she can, because she thinks DD deserves no better, because DD is nice and will tolerate it.

As her mum it’s your job to tell her to stand up for herself, to expect decency, respect, care from her friends. Would you make excuses for a man treating her poorly because he’s got difficult stuff in his life? I hope not. Why’s this different?

Why should anyone have to put up with this?

Does that make her treatment of my dd acceptable? To excuse it or at least explain it?

Well, it might explain it but it doesn't make it acceptable.

My concern would be the impact it has on her longer term but, at this age, I was also telling mine that I couldn't get involved and she had to make these choices for herself. Then, again, in the grand scheme of things, they are still young and it's difficult for them to know how to deal with it.

When I was in 6th form, I was in a similar situation. One day, she just pushed too far and I confronted her and told her that she was a bitch and this was why nobody liked her. It wasn't true because people did like her! But I was also only 17 🤷🏻‍♀️

She ran off to the toilets crying, I felt terribly guilty but was also still angry and left it. She never did or said anything again, we became good friends and she's now one of the few people from school I keep in touch with.

I know what triggered it (I knew at the time too) and her unkind comments to me were just a way of making herself feel better and more in control but that doesn't make it OK either.

Your daughter is allowed to stand up for herself.

This is bullying. It is irrelevant why this girl has made your daughter her emotional punchbag, it's the effect her words are having. AS her mother, you need to be on her side unequivocally

A poor home life may or may not be the reason why she is unpleasant - but it does not excuse it.

no one should be a thing for an angry person to kick when they are down.

no matter how shit this girls life is - she has no right to take it out on others.

you need to help your daughter be assertive and stand up for herself by calling her out for her nastiness. Not by being spiteful or petty back - but by being honest and truthfully telling her when she says things that hurt.

please don’t teach your daughter to be a meek thing that has to put up with crap from others no matter what or the could fall pray to an abusive partner if she us conditioned into thinking she must always be a good girl and take whatever anyone throws at her.

help her to find her voice and to stand up to this . It is not acceptable.

Having worked in policing for a long time and seen the impact of bullying etc I was determined that my daughter would not be a walking victim. In primary school if she was the target of “ banter” I would give her some smart arse responses to sling back. Helps if
you’re funny and can deliver it with some presence. The underlying message is not to test her patience. If this girl is like this with your DD and not the rest of the group then there is some kind of softness about her that she sees and is exploiting. Not that we don’t want our children to be kind etc but when they go out into the workplace etc they’re not going to be free of this type of behaviour so some tools to manage it are useful. She might need to challenge it head on and that’s uncomfortable but it might be what needs to happen.

Thanks for all the feedback.

yes she needs to draw a line and she has tried but has not yet succeeded.

This is so toxic and setting your DD up for tolerating abuse and making excuses for it in her adult life eg boyfriends.

She can go to student support.

They can support your daughter and approach the other girl (which they will do very sensitively) to check in on her too.

Teenage years are the hardest for navigating social relationships and they both need support for different reasons.

I absolutely am not excusing it. But as she doesn’t want to give up the group I need to understand the dynamics and not let her get gaslit into expecting this behaviour as banter. I want her confidence to grow so she can pursue real friendship not toxic groups like this.
I think this behaviour is awful but sometimes this girl is lovely and my dd needs some of the group so it’s a bit of a social minefield. She has to maintain boundaries without losing everyone. I think this mean girl has got away with it because of the banter presumption.

I know this won’t be a popular comment but there isn’t always an explanation beyond ‘they don’t like you’ unfortunately.

There are grown adults on here who tie themselves in knots because someone is cold to them or they don’t get invited somewhere. They assume that, if they haven’t knowingly done something negative to the other person, then they can’t dislike them and it must be something deeper.

She shouldn’t be mean to your DD of course but they are nearly adults now so perhaps it is a good time to learn that not everyone will like you/be nice to you and sometimes that’s just the way things are.

Negotiating life around people that don’t like you is an essential life skill.

How come your DD ‘needs’ the group? Is it for hobbies or something.?

I think it explains her behaviour and I certainly wouldn't think a teenager in her circumstances was a bad person for being horrible to other people when they had so much going on at home. Teens don't always have the tools or ability to manage difficult emotions and can lash out in the wrong way.

That doesn't mean that it's something your daughter should accept being on the receiving end of though. How bad are the comments? Do you think it amounts to bullying?

Anarchy, very good point. But I think her dilemma is that they sometimes do like her. The behaviour is contradictory. This is the main group where they meet for break and lunch. My dd said it would be very hard to join a new group and also she doesn’t want to give up on them.
But maybe you’re right, maybe some of them have moved away in a sense and she hasn’t accepted it. A life lesson for sure. Very hard to watch and to go through.

My DD is slightly older, in year 10. She’s always had nice sensible friends. At the start of this academic year she started hanging around with someone new. No idea why, she said she simply felt sorry for the girl who was having a tough time at home and also was ostracised at school. I thought it was quite sweet of DD but was also wary because my DS is in the year above and said her sister in his year is in trouble constantly and they’re kind of well known generally for misbehaving. I advised DD to be cautious but what can you do, you can’t police their friendships really. Also I was like you and thought it wasn’t fair to tar her with the same brush as her sister.

Lo and behold a couple of months later she started lashing out at my DD. It started with threats on Snapchat out of nowhere - my sister and I are going to get you, just wait and see. Then one morning her and her sister were waiting for DD and threw a bottle of water all over her. This was bad enough but they then got excluded as a result and sent home, they waited outside school for DD and started hitting and kicking her. Had to get the police involved. She’s been consistently excluded ever since, DD obviously has nothing to do with her now. She does have a shit home life- abject poverty, parents don’t work, lots and lots of siblings (I think 10) and they don’t care about their kids.

This long anecdote is to basically say, your sympathy and pity for the girl can only go so far. She’s having a tough time but in turn is giving your DD one too. Your DD doesn’t deserve this and also should come first for you. The friendship is toxic.