AIBU to find career advice from privileged speakers tone deaf?

[Bake]

We had a speaker at a work network event talking about her highly successful career and giving women advice about how she made it to where she is.

She talked about a difficult time in her life, she had small children, one who didn't sleep well, she was grieving, stressed, experiencing peri-menopause symptoms etc. These circumstances are so close to my current experience that it really piqued my interest, I couldn't wait to hear how she made it through this tough time and how I could use her experience to help me through.

I honestly didn't know whether to laugh or cry when she said how she made it through. I'm glad I had joined in Teams rather than being in the room. She quit her job and took 7 months off work. 😳

I understand she was there to talk about her experience, and she was fortunate to be in a position to do this, but I just don't see how it's helping the majority of the audience. After 7 months, she was asked to come back by her old boss, only agreed if it was on her terms, set up a consultation business and returned to the same job but on a day rate she set. It's not the first time we've had a speaker like this. Another man, who has given the same talk to two different teams in the business, came to teach us about burnout. He'd experienced it and had to take a year off work to recover.

I understand that there is a range of salaries in our organisation. But am I being unreasonable to think this is tone deaf to what most people can do? I would be in financial hardship if I took even a week off unpaid.

Even Bill Gates started with a collosal amount of luck. Luck that his parents could send him to an excellent private school. And extra luck that that school had some of the first computers for pupils to play around around and learn on. Bill and his mates got ahead of people years before computers were in most offices. They learnt to code before coding was a thing.

We are a bunch of mums with kids just left uni and a couple bemoaning the job market, applying but not getting anywhere. Then one mum pipes up ‘oh Sam is doing brilliant just bought a BMW (second hand but even so)’ and another ‘yes Imelda loves her job and such good pay…I’m sure yours will find something soon if they keep trying’. The difference? Both work for their Dads. Neither has been to a job interview in their lives. Both waltzed in to a position and salary no one of their age and (no) experience would be offered (neither had been to uni). Great - I’d love to be able to give my kid a job (and I certainly don’t believe a degree endows anything special nor am I implying these kids aren’t good at their work), but it’s the smugness about their child’s ’achievements’ and the proffered advice that kills me.

Oh how lovely.

the women who have SAHH, a helping hand with childcare or money to survive burnout are privileged and the women who create opportunities, network and make themselves invaluable shagged their way to the top.

there really is no winning for women is there?!

I attended a writing course by a childless male full time writer who emphasised the importance of finding out what time of day you are at your most creative and writing then.

Yes 100% this. Not always but usually. It’s not what you know and all that… It’s the same with the “entrepreneurs” advising young people not to bother with uni on YouTube, really boils my piss.

I'm reasonably successful in a very male dominated field so I've have been asked previously to attend "Women in ..." events to share how I got to where I am. To what end I don't know, my career path is fairly unconventional, it's not a route you'd recommend to someone wanting to get to the same position, I don't have children so can offer no insight on juggling work and motherhood. I mean the best thing I ever did career wise was quit my job with nothing to go to as I was sick of being micromanaged but it's not something I'd hold up as an example of how to do things!

I both agree and disagree with you.

Her solution is NOT right for many people and yes, it can sound tone deaf and I don't blame you at all for rolling your eyes on this one.

But, there may well be people in that room who do have the financial wherewithal to do this, but don't feel they can - they worry it will affect their career, how people will look at them etc. So for those people, perhaps it IS useful.

A friend of mine gave up a well paid job in IT in the city to retrain to a role that was very low paid. that story by itself might well make you think, "easy for her, she obviously has a rich husband" but actually, it was really really hard for them as a couple. When they decided to do it, they immediately cut back on everything. Then they put a timeline in place - she sucked it up for a year so that they could save as much as possible before she resigned. They made a lot of decisions in between to facilittae it. if you listen to her speak, she'll tell you iut was a good decision, but also the hardest thing they've ever done.

Yes! So much of the advice given seems to be based around having the confidence and knowledge that a more priviledged upbringing gives you. I remember being told about something I wrote, "you should get this published". That's great, but how? How am I, from a working class background, no contacts, even supposed to know where to begin? Or even who to ask to find out where to begin?

While I think that some advice can be tone deaf, the three people I know who have taken time out of work for various reasons (stress, caring responsibilities etc) have been nurses and charity workers with no high earning other half.

And love that there’s the insinuation a woman can only get senior with sex. My last three roles I was approached to interview for rather than applying because of the network and reputation I have. And I have two of the most senior men in the global company I work for that have told me if I wanted to come back into their teams they would create a role. So sometimes it does just happen because you’re good at your job! I have no public school background, family or friends in the industry.

@Gladystheimpaler To be honest, that’s a throw away line! It’s just saying the reader liked what you wrote. If you were an academic, getting something published isn’t unusual in specific journals.

@SockQueen People have to make it work but my DH was self employed and never did a nursery run in his life! For many women, having it all is doing it all. Hence low birth rate and women getting established in their jobs before a baby!

I once went on a career building course with a bunch of other women (strangers) and it emerged that all of us would like to become freelancers. I spent 24 hours racking my brain about how I could possibly make it work when suddenly the penny dropped that while I was single and totally dependent on myself, they were all married and expecting their husbands’ salaries to support their start ups/part time work.

I try to be honest. I got made redundant from a senior position earlier this year (was the only female in the SLT) and I’m honest that I can afford to be unemployed looking for my next job because DH earns well. However I have always been open and honest about having a disability and doing those events because I do think it can help others to be seen in senior roles.

I have a friend who is an executive coach and posts on LinkedIn all the time about how successful she is, their lifestyle etc. the reality her parents bought their big detached house, pay the school fees and do a lot of childcare. Her business does not fund her lifestyle at all.

I can assure you that as someone who was brought up middle class, private school. I have no contracts either and wouldn’t know where to start. None of my friends from my school would either. I was one the few people who had no one to ask for my child to do work experience as many people from my school became teachers and academics. I wouldn’t have a clue where a person would start to get something published and I doubt many people would regardless of upbringing. Once you get into the wider world your upbringing means very little

My favourite was a “semi retired” white 50 something male whose opening point was that you had to work hard . He demonstrated this by discussing his mother, a typist in the 50s/60s and not in the room. Apparently she was too lazy to work hard so stayed a typist.
you know, after she had turned down Oxford and Cambridge, and offers to be prime minister etc. she was a typist in the NW of England in the 50s who worked her ass off to pay for her ungrateful son who then stood there boasting about how he was semi retired but had no word of thanks for his elderly mum who did her best for him.
what an absolute twat.

This drives me mad.
I basically stopped listening to anything a man had to say about career unless I knew he had a wife with a full-on job as otherwise it didn't apply.
And anyone who said 'I always make dinner with family a priority' as the key to their work life balance, as if that's the goal rather than the absolute minimum. Who cooked the dinner, who did bed time and bath, who ferried the kids to their activities beforehand?
The people who say family is their number one priority but are always in the office.
Or the panel where they all talked about how they navigated into various roles and on further questioning it was their manager each time who had finagled the next role for them, not anything they did themselves. I asked had they ever found a new role without manager support and got blank looks.
Honestly there's so much that is luck and so much that is making decisions I wouldn't, that I honestly don't think these discussions are ever helpful.
The only good advice I've ever got was about buying in as much help as you can afford and not marrying your glass ceiling.

YANBU. Did you ask the question in the session? Not for the answer or as a gotcha moment but so that everyone else in the room can see the inequity being platformed.

"I was really invested in your talk as I'm in a very similar situation to the one you described before your career break. How did you afford to not work for 7 months?"

Inspirational speakers are only inspirational if they INSPIRE you to make a change in your own life. There's no wriggle room for most of us to make that kind of change. It's distasteful and foolish of her not to have referenced this in her presentation e.g. "I know I was in a privileged situation in that I could afford to take that 7 month hiatus thanks to my husband's salary/inheritance/mega yacht sale/only fans, but this is about looking at taking a beat and making a change. You'll not have the exact journey I had, but what is in your power to change?" or some other such LinkedIn bullshit.

It's kind of a self selecting group. People that want to make a living advising others based on their own experience are naturally going to be tending towards gobshites.

Anyone with a bit of self awareness is likely to be a too low key for this sort of gig.

Exceptions as always but in general

it applies generationally too. So much easier for boomers and Gen X to find jobs so frankly their advice is pretty pointless. I include myself in that.

@BananaPeelsEveryone equates private school with Eton. Obviously there is a whole mix of private schools and people who go to them! We have no connections either but both my DDs have recognised the need to network in their careers. However that isn’t possible for some areas of work. I do think people can suss out how to get on in their chosen field, but it’s a personal route quite often. It’s nothing to do with learning from others - they aren’t you and have mostly had a charmed life!

There was a link to asked questions and so I posted it anonymously on there. 4 or 5 people 'liked' the question, but the person hosting didn't put it to the speaker.

I had a catch up with my manager today and mentioned it. She laughed as she handed her notice in a couple of weeks ago and doesn't have anything else lined up, so she said it's basically what she's doing.

OP, I agree. It is annoying.

Usually these talks are for speakers to tell everyone how wonderful they are to have made it as a woman and for the audience to aspire to be like them, glossing over the house husband or high earning spouse or inheritance.

It is a similar criticism of Sheryl Sandberg's book 'Lean in'. The former COO of Facebook no less. Bet if we had a fraction of her being at the right place/right time and compensation, we could lean in so much we would be horizontal.

One thing to take away from this is that your speaker has/had an extraordinary employer who offered a supportive response to a valued colleague.

I know quite a few people who work a 9-5 job and then have there own business in the evening including some senior managers who are trying to leave there industry.

I'm single (with two kids) and just been made redundant from my well paid job in tech. My redundancy money is helping me to start picking up freelance work for myself two days a week while I have found a three days a week job to bring in steady income, pension, holiday pay etc.. I'm not saying it's easy or not nerve racking but I don't have a husband at all to pay for me. My ex-line manager leaves the company in December and is also setting up her own business. I would never of chosen to be made redundant and nor would she, it's been toxic but we are all trying to make it work so we don't end up in this situation again.

I went on to become a freelancer much later after a successful high-paying corporate career. Still single and self-supported. I wasn't trying to suggest that women can't and don't make this work on their own behalf (though I can see how my post read like that). It was more a "check your privilege" thought.