Is lodger being disrespectful?

[NewAgeDawning]

This time last year my husband and I decided to take in a lodger. We found a lady who would provide a very good arrangement: she would pay full asking price but only use the room when working. On her days off shed return to her home. The agreement was for 6 months only, and we extended for another six months so not a long term thing. Shes always been respectful, quiet, clean, tidy. No complaints. We let her in to our inner circle - as time progressed conversations became friendlier, shed often share dinner with us, our toddler loves her. Its been a v good balance.

Like i said earlier, this lodger returns home regularly, where she has a long term boyfriend. We always said he was welcome in the house, as well as her family. Said boyfriend visited once (didnt stay), she had an uncle come over for tea and I always said her daughter should come visit. The tenancy agreement has no rules about visitors, theres something vague about how permission is needed for anyone to stay over a week. We never thought it necessary to say anything more about visitors given her personal situation.

About a month ago, she breaks up with her boyfriend (she told me) and literally one week later she rocks up to the house with a man we've never seen or heard of before. We know this because we saw it on our ring camera whilst we were away for the weekend.
She brings him into the house and is critical of our home - that I buy plants and kill them for example (I laughed when I heard her say this and brushed it off but her tone kinda stung).
Then, in the hallway, the guy says something about me drinking j*zz and she laughs (we have another camera in the living room so could hear) then they go upstairs where I can just about hear her begin to criticise something else but the camera stops picking up dialogue. By the way, she knows about the cameras, theyre not hidden. We tell people about them. We put them in to watch our dog initially but left them for security.

My husband was livid and wanted to kick her out but I talked him down, said the money was important, and shed only be around for a few more months. We didnt mention any of this to her. I hoped she wouldnt bring him back.

After this, the guy becomes a permanent fixture - never comes in again, just parks on the road side and takes her. A couple of times hes been outside, with her, when im arriving home with my toddler and she never thought of introducing him to me.
She never mentioned him to us even though shes been seeing him every day for the last month or so.

Last week at home DH, now placated from his anger, jokes around, asks the lodger if she has a new boyfriend, who he is and she tells him his name, what he does, and she is v open. When the guy comes to pick her up DH goes out to meet him, of his own initiative.

Im technically still in the dark.
But im like its a good arrangement. Just suck it up, just a few more months. Im bothered, and dither between giving her notice or letting it be.

A few days ago, she does the hard work for me and gives notice. Great. Shes gone in a month.

However today, we spent the day out. We tell her well be out and guess who comes back in the house? The guy. Annoyingly he parked on our drive when we had planned for the dog walker to use it.

Im really annoyed. I feel like my space has been violated. I dont know this man, and for all i know, she doesnt really either. She was vetoed before being allowed in the house but now the door's been swung open to a man, when we have a little girl with us.

AiBU in confronting her? Im not a confrontational type and feel myself shaking just thinking about the chat itself but I'm 15 weeks pregnant and upset. At this point I dont want him here and want to tell her as much. It all feels so dodgy. Her life is her business as long as it is away from here.

For your next lodger do make sure to have some clauses relating to ‘politeness’ in your ‘tenancy agreement’. Probably a good idea to have something in there about you accidentally listening to private conversations too because of all the cameras. Then everyone is clear on what is expected and any future potential lodgers will know to run a mile.

You want a pal, not a lodger

The tenant has every right to let someone else park in the space they are paying for. The tenancy includes off road parking, she was using it.
I rent a house that comes with a parking space, I do not ask my landlord's permission before letting someone else use it! It's mine, I'm pay for it!

This.

OP is getting slated in the comments, but she is hardly 'listening to her every move' etc.

Yes, you are being unreasonable in several ways.

1.Your 'tenancy' (which isn't a tenancy) agreement says permission is only needed for stays over a week. A visitor spending an afternoon or even a night does not require your permission under that agreement. You cannot retroactively get cross with her for breaking an unestablished rule that no one unknown to you may enter.

2.You listened to private conversations through cameras in your own home and then got hurt over two throwaway jokes. The "j*zz" comment was crass, yes, but it was clearly laddish banter between two people who didn't know they'd be properly overheard. The plant comment stung, but people say things in private they'd never say to your face. You admitted you laughed it off yourself, but tbh it doesn't sound like you actually did.

3.Disclosing that cameras exist is not the same as making it acceptable to actively monitor someone's private conversations and movements. Legally and ethically, there is a meaningful difference between "the cameras are there for security" and "I sat and followed two people to two different places in my house listening to their conversation." She knew about the cameras in the abstract. She almost certainly did not consent to being surveilled in real time, having her conversations replayed, analysed, and quoted back on a public forum. If the positions were reversed, I suspect you would feel quite violated. The irony is that this is the nailed-on violation of private space in this story.

4.You also seriously entertained the idea that she and this man were a burglary team casing your house. This is a woman who has lived with you respectfully for a year, whom you let into your "inner circle," who your toddler loves. Your husband went out and introduced himself to this man of his own accord and came away fine. The man comes, picks her up, and leaves. He visited the house once while she was there. That is an entirely normal thing for a lodger's partner to do. If this is genuinely your thought pattern and not an attempt at reclaiming a narrative that wasn't going your way in the comments, it's a leap is quite significant, and worth having a think about why your mind went there imo.

She leaves in a month. The reasonable path here is to let it go, have a polite conversation about not blocking the drive (that is a fair and practical ask), and part on good terms with someone who has, by your own account, been an excellent lodger for a year.

I think taking in lodgers again would be a mistake for you. It requires a very particular mindset that not everyone naturally has, and there's no shame in that. The lodger-landlord relationship has a specific shape to it, and you invited her across that boundary with dinners together, inner circle, your toddler forming an attachment. When you blur those lines yourself, you cannot then be surprised or hurt when she behaves like a lodger rather than a trusted friend. You shaped the relationship into something more personal, and then held her to the standards of that personal relationship unfairly.

Op, I don’t think it would be reasonable to say anything about the car either. She rents a room from you and you weren’t there. She wasn’t aware you had told the dog walker to park on the drive, so she told her visitor he could park there. You can apologise to the dog walker and say you hadn’t expected the lodger to have her friend park on the drive. That’s all really.

It may cause problems for you if you if you piss her off. She could do whatever she wants that the contract allows for the next three weeks - which could even include having her room full of people, loud music etc 7am till 11pm. What you consider polite is irrelevant unfortunately. She doesn’t have to ask to invite guests - she pays for the room and there is nothing in the contract to say she has to inform you.

For what it’s worth, if any of us had heard what you heard we’d feel violated too. But it wasn’t intended for you to hear. She probably doesn’t realise they record all the time. Be thankful this happened so close to the end of the arrangement so you don’t have to put up with it for long.

It sounds like you basically don’t like the fact she has a new boyfriend so soon and this has changed your opinion of her, and therefore have decided that she’s not to have visitors despite you previously saying she could. She’s done nothing wrong here.

Well that is your arrangement. Not so with this landlady.

Disclosing that cameras exist is not the same as making it acceptable to actively monitor someone's private conversations and movements. Legally and ethically, there is a meaningful difference between "the cameras are there for security" and "I sat and followed two people to two different places in my house listening to their conversation." She knew about the cameras in the abstract. She almost certainly did not consent to being surveilled in real time, having her conversations replayed, analysed, and quoted back on a public forum.

This with bells on! I guarantee she didn't know that there was audio on them and that you would use them to listen into private conversations! This is completely unacceptable behavior by you. The idea that you thought that she might suddenly be robbing the place is nonsense.

Certainly is being disrespectful , but i would be more offended that she has slagged me off , she is no friend of yours.
You haven't got long left until she's gone so i would just bite my tongue until then.
She is totally out of order bringing this man into your home though .

Disclosing that cameras exist is not the same as making it acceptable to actively monitor someone's private conversations and movements. Legally and ethically, there is a meaningful difference between "the cameras are there for security" and "I sat and followed two people to two different places in my house listening to their conversation." She knew about the cameras in the abstract. She almost certainly did not consent to being surveilled in real time, having her conversations replayed, analysed, and quoted back on a public forum

Yes, good point. I do think you need to make it very clear to future lodgers that the cameras have sound, and that you don’t only re-watch footage in the event of a burglary, but that you regularly use them to listen to private conversations. Doubt you’d find a lodger who’d agree to this arrangement.

Then, in the hallway, the guy says something about me drinking jzz and she laughs (we have another camera in the living room so could hear) then they go upstairs where I can just about hear her begin to criticise something else but the camera stops picking up dialogue

Oh dear that's disappointing you couldn't hear the rest of their private conversation. Shame you forgot to install a spy camera in her bedroom for more creepy snooping.

I agree. Very creepy behaviour

I think you are getting some stupid comments. I also wouldn’t like anyone who says what the new boyfriend, or someone who condoned it said being in my house. She sounds like she has changed from friendly and respectful to offish. I would keep peace till moves out, then change locks . Anywhere there is a ring doorbell or cameras people know what they say can be heard, it’s not “spying”, you don’t have a camera in her room! Good luck with new baby, and pleased for you that you don’t have to do lodger thing again.

Well she'll be gone soon. If you have another lodger put no overnight visitors in agreement.

Reviewing ring camera recordings to check on other people conversations is not something everyone does.

I’d dislike strangers in my home, especially with young children. I also have learnt familiarity breeds contempt is indeed correct!
of you ever do this again, state no visitors overnight / at all etc

Eavesdroppers never hear good things about themselves.

Stop spying on your lodgers.

She sounds fun, you sound like a busy body.

Checking who is going in your house is though! Saying what the new boyfriend says isn’t something everyone does either! So once again a man says something disgusting and the fault lies with the person who heard it .

It was a private conversation? OP only knows about it because it was recorded? So she’s listening to a recording of a private conversation?

Eavesdroppers never hear good of themselves, as they say

I also wouldn’t like anyone who says what the new boyfriend, or someone who condoned it said being in my house

So we're all to be condemned because of 121 remarks made to our sexual partners when we are in the privacy of our homes? Have you never said anything off colour (or indeed absolutely filthy) to your boyfriend or husband when it's just the two of you?

The mental visual of the OP & her husband sitting down to view and listen to what has been recorded on the cameras, just freaks me out.

These people need to step back, take a good hard look at themselves and stop having lodgers before they find themselves drilling spy holes in walls & ceilings.

It reminds me of that film, The Lives of Others.

Doesn't off road parking sorta imply the driveway? Or am I missing something there

I don’t think she had done anything wrong - the comments were private, except that you listened.

Unfortunately, you've overheard a disrespectful conversation about you in your own home between a soon-to-be ex-lodger and some random bloke she's hitched up with. .

You'd be none the wiser if that interaction between the two happened instead while they were sat in the car,

The point most people are missing, or deliberately minimising is - those things should not be said by your lodger while she's in your home, or her boyfriend, who becomes a temporary guest once she invites him in. Basic respect and courtesy. It's not like those things were said in quiet tones in the privacy of the bedroom she's nrenting.

Now you have the information in your head and the bloke has further added to your pissed-off ness by parking on your drive when you were out.

Meanwhile, its mad how many are trying to make you out to be some unhinged stalker, who's tracking their every move and standing outside their door - yes, I've actually lodged with that person.

Guess most on here think its fine for people to shit-talk you behind your back in your own home and that somehow, you're the wrong'un for finding out via your home security. Make it make sense, people!