What exactly is the strictness in English schools actually achieving?

[WaitAMinutePlease]

I’ve been on Mumsnet for years and one thing that genuinely puzzles me is how strict many English schools seem to be.

The thread today about the little boy with severe leg pain, and his mum asked if he could temporarily leave school at 1.30pm instead of 3.30pm because he’s struggling physically. The school apparently refused and said they wouldn’t “release” him. (Sorry? You won’t ‘release’ MY child??? WTAF!)

I see similar threads all the time. Parents being threatened with fines over attendance, children not being allowed time off for family holidays, requests for flexibility being refused, schools insisting on attendance despite medical issues that are still being investigated, and so on.

I’m Irish, and honestly this feels ridiculous to me. Irish schools are generally much more pragmatic. If a child was struggling with a health issue, even one that hadn’t yet been formally diagnosed, most schools would work with the parents. Reduced hours, work sent home, flexibility around attendance, none of that would seem remotely controversial. Equally, while schools don’t encourage term-time holidays, taking children out of school for a family holiday isn’t generally treated as some major disciplinary issue.

What I don’t understand is what the strictness is actually achieving. Ireland has a higher proportion of students progressing to third-level education than England by a mile (approx 76% vs 46%), so it’s not obvious to me that a highly punitive attendance culture produces better educational outcomes.

So my question is: why are English schools like this?

Is it government pressure? Ofsted? League tables? Funding linked to attendance? Or is it actually genuinely believed that this level of strictness benefits children?

Junior and senior infants (first two years of primary) finish at 1.30pm the rest finish at 2.30. Secondary schools finish generally between 3.30/4.

Also worth pointing out that children don't generally start school in Ireland until they're 5 or close to it. There are 8 years in the primary school cycle so they start secondary at 13 or close to it. There are, for the majority, 6 years in secondary school and you stay in the same school right up to your final year (unless you choose to change schools). I know that's different in England and I've no idea if it makes any difference to behaviour but I do feel children in England are very young starting secondary which may have a negative impact on behaviour with some struggling with the transition

What do parents do for the first three years with the early finishes? I imagine that is awkward although I can see the case for the youngest doing a shorter day. My four year old still naps.

Perhaps they have after school clubs?
Schools often finish early in Finland, my 1st grader finishes at 12 every day except Tuesdays when he finishes at 13, so he goes to after school club until I finish work.

Variety of things, childminders, after school clubs, work part-time.

Also a lot more SAHMs, part time working and grandparents if we are being completely honest.

Not really. They need to bring a pen. Why should our precious school budget be spent on kids who can’t be arsed bringing basic equipment. Some lessons it’s half a dozen kids, then it’s the same with rulers, glue sticks and pencils. It is not unreasonable to say to a kid please bring a pen to class. I am sick of spending my own money on basic equipment because some kids are too lazy to pop a pen in their blazer pocket.

We don’t either. One off charge per year included in council tax.

If schools just provided pens etc. like they do in my country, then you wouldn't get any conversations like that happening, which would cut down on distractions to the class and allow you to focus on teaching.

Edit: schools want to save money by making children provide their own equipment but does it really save anything when it takes away from teaching time and requires more time and effort spent on discipline?

But it doesn't fall out of the sky and into your taps; there's a lot of infrastructure for getting it where we want it, and clean. So is it just paid for out of taxation? Seems a bit unfair, when some people use a lot more than others.

I have kids who I know have t got a pen due to home life and I have a discrete stash of pencil cases in my bottom desk draw (paid for out of my money) for those kids. In my example I’m talking NT kid from stable home. If a kid gets embarrassed by a teacher saying please bring a pen to class then we have serious issues as a society and actually the majority of kids say ‘I have forgotten my pen please can I borrow one’. No problem. Again- staying behind after class- I might have to get to the opposite side of the school for an over lesson or go on break duty. I might have a kid who’s upset about something and wants to talk to me. I might have a kid who’s lost their timetable and needs me to look up what they have next. I might have a kid who needs a bit of help with hwk. So whilst it might seem to be no issue at all in the scenario I described it can have a knock on effect.

They need to bring a pen in order to learn…which is why we punish them for not having a pen by putting them in isolation, which in turn prevents them from learning.

The logic is airtight.

Why is the response ‘why aren’t teachers giving the kid a pen” and not ‘why the fuck are some kids routinely coming to school without a pen’. And we are not talking about kids in poverty or with SEN, just kids who literally can’t be arsed to pack a pen.

Yes that would be wonderful. But sadly it doesn’t happen. We have no money at all. That’s on the government, not me.

Mine did in Scotland.

No- my original point is they get in trouble for their attitude towards the teacher - not the pen. It could be any scenario - John could you please put your phone away, John could you face the front, John could you stop talking. No kid at my school is going to get put into isolation for one of those things but if they respond with attitude and back chat then they might.

Oh definitely not the teachers fault but it is the fault of whoever is in charge of budgetting. There's not huge amounts of money in school budgets here either but they aren't paying ridiculous salaries to executive heads of academy trusts and suchlike, so they have more money to spend on teachers and equipment - DS's primary school even had an extra teacher this year, didn't have their own class but instead worked as needed with different classes.

If only schools didn’t have any rules or requirements whatsoever, then teachers would never come into conflict with teens by expecting them to do anything and the world would be so much better.

Except teachers still have to get the kids to learn maths.

Each new year 7 in our school gets a pencil case with basic equipment. But lots of pupils misplace them, some leave them at home, some just can’t be bothered. Then what do you do, keep providing free pens? Schools just don’t have the funds to keep providing free stuff.
i have students coming to me asking for a spare pair of tights, because theirs have holes in them.students come for plasters, because there are none at home. And I am not including pupil premium students in this. Parents often have the attitude of ‘ ask the school for it’.

Would you rather have less unnecessary conflict or more?

It’s infuriating for the other kids who want to learn too. My son barely learnt anything in some lessons because the teacher spent half the lesson on crowd control.

Schools are learning places. You cannot compare global statistics in mental health. The top performing countries probably would come out top in mental health, but British pupils would not cope with their education system. If England is top in the UK, it means students and teachers are engaging more than the other countries, which would suggest better mental health.

I bet those are the same parents who moan about not wanting to pay tax for the government to waste it!

Goodness knows, but lazy parenting is a huge problem.

Why wouldn’t you learn in isolation?
You have no distraction, teachers send work for you and you have a qualified teacher overseeing you.

@countrylife00 have a look at UNICEF’s 2026 report card. Children’s mental health in the U.K. is atrocious and getting worse compared to many other developed Western countries. And if you dig deep in the data when children are asked about 10 measures of wellbeing they are listing unhappiness with school as number one. A lot of children are very unhappy in school and I personally think it comes down to poor SEN support, an overly proscriptive and narrowing curriculum, with the arts and extracurricular activities being squeezed out, only lip service being paid to a work/life balance, and both students and teachers stressed out of their minds as a result of top down pressure from OFSTED and league tables on attendance and academic performance.