AIBU to point out that the most important duty of the UK government is to maintain the defence of the country?

[KateSixer]

The shameful, cowardly and extremely short sighted decision of Starmer and Reeves not to properly fund the defence budget has led to the resignation of the Secretary of State for Defence.

Honestly it's traitorous.

I’m seriously considering not paying my tax bill next month and I’ve been a taxpayer, paying willingly and on time, for over 40 years. I’m so sick of this government spending money on the wrong things. They need to stop chasing votes and cut the benefits bill. The lifting of the 2 child cap was a disgrace.

We need to rebuild the Forces. We're looking at 30+ years of neglect, in a world where drones have reshaped the battlefield and we can't rely on America.

It needs to be paid for. I suspect it will be a mix of capital borrowing, future tax rises and trimming in other areas.

If it's borrowing: our debt servicing costs are already at 8% of expenditure. Future tax rises? Good luck with that: it's already at 38% of national income. That leaves us with cutting budget from other areas. The only one where it will make a difference is health or welfare.I can't see the backbenchers agreeing to cuts.

Rachel Reeves raised NI to fund services, pinned her hopes on supply-side adjustments and infrastructure to push up productivity. Businesses were already struggling from high inflation, then the iran war happened, causing energy prices to rise even further.

If I had to choose, I would:

• restructure the tax system to get rid of the cliff edges. Make it easier at the bottom and the top to earn more. At the moment, people are hovering under the 16 hours cap for tax credits (because of the clawback rates) and the 100k limit (the 60% tax trap). We need to stop punishing people for doing well! Ironically, this would bring in more tax in the long run as people earn more.
• I would scrap council tax in favour of a land value tax. It works well in other countries and would work here. It also unlocks more money for councils that can be used to address the systemic money pits (housing and social care).
• Change the triple-lock to a double-lock pledge for pensions. It did it's job in getting pensions up to a reasonable level, but the rises are ratcheting ever higher whilst our over-60s population increase and the tax base shrinks.
• Look at a time-limited increase on VAT.
• Long-term, shrink the housing benefits bill by increasing social housing. I would also stop outsourcing so much of the social care budget - it's obscene we are handing children and elderly off to private providers who are happy to charge 000's but consistently fail inspections and safety checks. I would go back to more council-run provision, perhaps even get councils to pool their resources large-scale projects.

Long-term, shrink the housing benefits bill by increasing social housing. I would also stop outsourcing so much of the social care budget - it's obscene we are handing children and elderly off to private providers who are happy to charge 000's but consistently fail inspections and safety checks. I would go back to more council-run provision, perhaps even get councils to pool their resources large-scale projects.

I’m all for this. Care providers have local authorities over a barrel, especially regarding residential placements for children with complex needs. They can name their price, knowing that in many cases, local authorities have no other options whatsoever.

I don’t agree with this one. Children shouldn’t be denied the basics in order to teach their parents a lesson.

They were talking about this on GB News earlier. Saying that our subs were really old and because they are out on manoeuvres for so long they don't get the basic care or servicing that they require and some if them are in a dreadful state.

Who do you think are really riling people up and causing dissent? It's classic, sow seeds of dissent and public disorder....
China runs TikTok and controls the algorithms and what we see in the west, which is a very different from what the Chinese see.

Cyber policy etc is funded by the Home Office and cyber crime managed both the HO and the NCA.

Your point about what Tiktok and other media show in the UK is a good one. How any government manages that is a separate discussion to the size of the Defence budget though.

To say nothing of the ridiculous demands on the submariners who crew them. A friend's son is a submariner. The deployment weeks at sea (out of touch with your friends and family, because you are on deployment) are getting longer.

All our ships are ageing and the fleet is shrinking because it costs too much to keep the elderly ones going. The Type 23 Frigate Class was supposed to have been retired and replaced but the Type 45s that replaced them were built down to a price. And most have spent their time since launch up against a wall. Until recently, DH's company was involved in repairing and refitting some of the T23 gear, and there were 18 or so of them. Now there are six (6) left.

Don't mention aircraft carriers. A political pork barrel decision to buy Gordon Brown votes in Scotland. And as successful a shipbuilding project as the new CalMac ferries.

Our submarines DO get the maintenance needed, by people who understand and take the risks very seriously. But the maintenance intervals are stretched out by the politicians who want to be seen to be making a difference. For them, maintenance is an after thought.

But who will fight the wars if we are attacked in 20 years time? For that matter who will work in high paying jobs to pay for the pensioners of 20 years from now retirement, or for that matter work in lower paid but important jobs in care etc?
I don't think everyone should be popping out children. But we do want babies to be born. And we want the babies that are born to grow up healthy and well fed. Not just for their own sake but because they will be the productive adults of tomorrow.

I want babies to be born that the parents take responsibility for looking after them financially and ensuring that they are well fed. I’m not against some sort of support. But it should be limited to 2 children. My children who work, and their partners work, can’t afford to have more than 2 children. If people want to have more then they need to provide for them.

They won’t be though will they? Benefits have never been so generous yet our NEET problem has never been so out of control. All benefits do is raise kids to think work is optional.

Oh you think the Tories did a good job? Yes it is a good job other people didn't think so.

Then you’re in the minority now for Labour. Good job that’s the case.

Yep. And stops people from working or trying to better themselves. = shit mental health escalating in to generation after generation 😫

So suddenly you think this country's worth defending now Labour are in? Pity the PM doesn't put our money where his mouth is.

Who cares who did what or what happened in the past, it’s all irrelevant now. What are Labour going to do now about our defence? Very little from the look of it, because of course benefits 🙄

Raise the subject of benefits and feel the wrath of the people. Can't believe pp advocated throwing more billions into the NHS - that's one big black hole, which in its current state is unfixable.

No I don't. I think it takes more than two years to sort out, particularly with the orange toddler causing global economic strife.

Look at the serious issues this thread is about. I never suggested that previous govts did a good job either.

Petty bickering while the national interest is at risk is not helping.

Two major resignations and Sir Richard Knighton's private concerns to starmer but let's rake over the Tories previous terms instead. Frighteningly naive or just deluded.

The concerning part is Labour do the same. Deflect and deny.

But, and we can't get away from this, there is only so much money available.

Ultimately ensuring national defence (and internal safety and security for people and their belongings) are the first and second most important obligations of govt.

If the benefits bill needs to be cut to ensure these priorities are properly met then I am afraid it must be cut.

The ability to provide benefits to less fortunate people is a consequence of the foresight and hard work of others in creating a rich and secure state.

If you don't have an economically successful and secure state you can't have benefits!

Starmer - I won't be taking lessons from the Tories - certainly does.

The Tories were still blaming the previous Labour government right up to when they left office. But Labour aren't given even two years to arrest terminal decline? I see.

It's not bickering, it's about the serious fucking reality and the history of why we find ourselves here and why it will take years to untangle. There is no magic money tree for defence, nor anything else.