To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

[CaragianettE]

Just that, really. Saw one last week. He was trying to be helpful, but I really really really don’t want to discuss ‘do you get clots’ ‘do you experience flooding’ ‘do you find intercourse painful’ with a strange man. Yes it would be awkward with a strange woman too, but at least I know she likely has some lived experience of what we are talking about. TBH I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas, but I think there’s something deep in the male psyche that just loves laying down the law to women about their reproductive systems. It’s a job for a woman, and while I know men were allowed to train for it in the past, I think they should now be phased out.

The best gynaecologist I have seen was male, the most dismissive was female.
Of course male gynaecologists shouldn't be banned, ridiculous idea.

The best gynaecologist I have seen was male. Didn’t fob me off or tell me it “is normal” referred me straight away for a diagnostic laparoscopy. I’ve had women be far more dismissive.

GP’s though, I have only had 1 amazing male doctor and only 1 female doctor I really didn’t like.

What a ridiculous thing to say just because people disagree with you. And to say you think there’s something sinister about men who choose gynaecology as a specialism is frankly deranged.

For me the more important thing is fully trained gynaecologists. As someone dealing with endometriosis and adenomyosis and having had years of interactions where it was missed, what I want is a gynaecologist that understands these things. I dont care if they are male or female, I care that they are properly trained. The amount of specialists in this area that have a lack of understanding, give women the wrong information or dismiss women is shocking and that happens with both male and female gynaecologists.

I had a horrible time with vulvodynia years ago, absolutely horrendous and the NHS did not want to know, passing me from gyno to dermatology and back again.

At one point a helpful young male doctor asked me (with a bored expression) what I expected them to do about it in my appointment, after which I had a panic attack in the corridor so that was nice. Thankfully a nurse came and helped me.

Anyway, as is usually the case with shit like this I had to throw money at it and the consultant was a kindly bloke, probably in his 60s so with donkeys years of experience and the only medical person who actually gave a shit. Yes I was paying, but he could have just been clinical about things. He really did care. He always had a female chaperone in the room and my husband could stay too, never once did I feel uncomfortable. Only relieved that finally someone was helping me.

Also in the same building, a few years later, worked the man who gave me a lovely scan up there with the wand, but successfully identified my endo - and then later zapped it which meant I could finally conceive.

But just to prove my non handmaid credentials I did have a woman consultant deliver DD. We met her a few appointments beforehand when she was trying to get me to agree to a sweep and although I refused I could see she was very forthright and no nonsense and I liked that. When the forceps and episiotomy happened, she came through the door to do all that and I remember being glad it was her.

Handmaids?

They’re right you are being ridiculous

So how does this all work women want women to be home having babies and not working because womens role in life is caring for others in the family so the only doctors should be men or women who dont want to have children, yet we are told women who dont have children by choice are weird

Strongly disagree.

I have just about every gynecological going.

First gyn was male. His surgery changed by life. Eased the pain. Made living possible again - no constant agony, no more constant painkillers, flooding, fainting, vomiting, missing work,.

Second was female and one of the most dismissive medical professionals I ever met.

Current one also female and is excellent. When I switched to her, she reviewed all my old records and commented on how lucky I was to have the first gyn do my surgery as it was very complex and the results he were well above standard outcomes. He said he was about 20 years ahead of most gyns in the country as he had spend 7 years abroad learning from some of the best.

Surely the best outcome is the most important part not the sex of the doctor.

I completely get it OP.

I agree in that I would also question the motive of a man going into that specialty, I do find it awkward talking about those things with a man, and I don't think it's the same as saying, for example, that only people who have had cancer can should be oncologists. Obviously.

I dont think men should be gynaecologists.Then again, I don't think men should be nursery nurses or midwives either. We wouldn't really be able to enforce that though, in this day and age.

That said, you must have known you'd have your arse handed to you suggesting such a thing on MN!

Adam Kaye is a raging misogynist. I reread his book and was quite shocked at some of the descriptions and dismissiveness.

Grow up

Handmaids?! You’re the one that wants to determine jobs by sex

I felt totally traumatised after a visit to a particular female gynaecologist. She really dismissed my pain. I’m sure there are brilliant female and male gynaecologists and I’d be delighted to see either. My next appointment will be with a male gynaecologist that a friend has recommended.

I don’t care what sex a gynaecologist is, I don’t even really care if they take the piss out of it all after hours like Adam Kay, as long as while they’re attending to me they’re professional, competent and relatively personable.

I had an internal ultrasound done by a male the other day. I did stop for a beat, but then I reminded myself that he was a trained professional and had probably seen a hundred women that day. He was gentle, and communicated consent and concern for my dignity at every step. I couldn’t have asked for more.

That's a reach... no one is telling them to become a gyno. It would be nice if your GP knew of women's issues and such tho.

Men have mothers, wives and daughters. Who knows what experience they may have had that led them to be interested in that field? Maybe they had a mother who had some sort of reproductive cancer young? I do generally prefer a woman but what I really want is a good one. If the man was better, I'd see him first.

As for looking at vaginas, that would wear off really fast. It would all get same old, same old after a while.

What about female urologists who work with men? Is that allowed?

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I had a vile female gynaecologist years ago when I was pregnant and had my first internal. So long as a male gynaecologist knows his stuff and is there to help me, I'm fine with it.

Don’t be ridiculous. There’s nothing wrong with being personally fine with a male gynaecologist. I’m fine with it. I think any woman should, without question, be entitled to request a female if that’s what they want.

Ridiculous

Some nuance is needed here about empathy fatigue. Having been a clinician and specialising in woman’s health the empathy fatigue is real- especially in clinics when you see one patient after another.

In addition because women’s medicine understanding is a bit behind mens - gestures at the patriarchal structure- women’s concerns have been systematically underserved for multiple millennia. The real world impact is thst women have been prevented from having accurate language to explain their symptoms. Most women haven’t even looked at their genitals before seeking medical treatment and assessment.

This results in a huge unspoken burden on the clinician and after 3 years of working in Women’s Health I was burnt out.

Having been unfortunate enough to have needed gynaecology services numerous times over the last 18 years I have seen several. One male was rude and dismissive, two other males were fantastic and really listened to me and treated me brilliantly. The two female gynaecologists I encountered were both completely unsympathetic and dismissive, one of them even tutting while giving me a painful biopsy with no anaesthesia.

I honestly don’t care what gender my medical professionals are, as long as they are good at their job!

YABU. I’ve had extensive contact with gynaecologists over a ten year period, and I’ve experienced sub-standard care and fantastic care from both sexes.

My gynae surgery in January was performed by a man, and the results have been amazing. He is an obstetrician and I’ve never been more grateful for any medical professional than I was for him. Two years prior to this, a procedure was carried out by a different male consultant who was cold, arrogant and inflicted an unnecessary amount of pain during the procedure; he was someone I would regard as unfit to practice medicine.

My son was also delivered by a man, and I’ve nothing but compliments for him too.

Old joke: "Would you take your car to a mechanic who'd never had one?"

I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas

What utter rubbish. If a man just wants to look at vaginas, there are plenty of magazines and websites available which cost a lot less than a medical degree and don't require years of study punctuated by difficult exams.

I kind of understand what you are saying op. I have endometriosis, adenomyosis and a very long history of being a gynaecologist patient. Most of the gynaecologists I’ve seen have been male and whilst some of them have been wonderful some have been very dismissive and think they know my body better than I do. I can handle pain well but I had a very painful uterine ablation performed 4 years ago and whilst it was being done the nurse asked me to describe my pain on a 0-10 scale, I said around 8-9, the gynae popped his head up and said ‘Pfff, a nine? I don’t think so, I’d say more a 4’.

He said all of this whilst burning away the lining of my uterus. I wanted to kick him in the bollocks and ask what the pain felt like on a scale of 0-10.