To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

[CaragianettE]

Just that, really. Saw one last week. He was trying to be helpful, but I really really really don’t want to discuss ‘do you get clots’ ‘do you experience flooding’ ‘do you find intercourse painful’ with a strange man. Yes it would be awkward with a strange woman too, but at least I know she likely has some lived experience of what we are talking about. TBH I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas, but I think there’s something deep in the male psyche that just loves laying down the law to women about their reproductive systems. It’s a job for a woman, and while I know men were allowed to train for it in the past, I think they should now be phased out.

And there'll be women's bits with infections, growths, cancers and skin conditions. A large proportion of which will be over 65. It sounds so sexy.

Oh yeah, i bet the doctor can't wait to see my birth injury!

What is wrong with people assuming any man who wants to do gynae is a raging perv? I imagine that once you have done all the training, female genitals hold very little appeal in any case. Plus it’s a hell of an effort just to see a few vaginas.

Just because 98% of predators are men, it doesn’t mean that 98% of men are predators.

Given the same attitude that is displayed to male teachers, midwives, nursery workers etc, I’m surprised some of you let your children near their own fathers. Especially as assaults on women and children are more likely to happen at home.

Request a female gynae by all means but assuming all male ones are dodgy is ridiculous

The last time I saw a male gynaecologist he was lovely and very reassuring. I had a colposcopy and biopsies taken will only a little pain. Sad to say my experience with women gynaecologists has not been the same. Some have been quite dismissive rather than empathetic. Yabu.

I think it's more likely that they choose medicine as a career, then later realise that gynae allows them to intimately examine women a lot - and decide to choose that specialism for nefarious reasons.

I don't think creepy men would base their entire career on it. I posted upthread that I had a gynaecologist who complimented the look of my vagina after an intimate examination when I was a teenager. Not the creepiest thing in the world, but it was a bit strange/made me uncomfortable and I doubt a female gynaecologist would have said that

Most of the links don’t work. Of those that do, neither were gynaecologists.

The website was glitching earlier, they are all working links, alternatively Google gmc tribunals and look at the ones that have been struck off or "erased" as they like to call it.

It was in answer to the idea that nobody would choose to train to be doctors in order to access women. Well 3 of those did, or they just found their predatory side later (irrelevant which), the other 3 , i wouldn't want near any vulnerable women or child either. Speciality is irrelevant they all had access to women, gynaecologist just get exclusive access to women, and predominantly in relation to intimate areas, this is just a snapshot of 1 month of tribunals.

It’s a bit like saying men shouldn’t be doctors though. With any intimate exam there should be a chaperone but at the hospital there is always a nurse in the room. Women shouldn’t be allowed to request a female doctor but to ban them is ridiculous.

Obviously that should say ‘should’. For some reason I can’t edit!

There will need to be more women than men for the same coverage, yes. I was disputing the idea that it needs to be twice as many or whatever nonsense was being spouted upthread. For the reasons outlined in my previous post the difference is narrowing. More and more women work full-time, more men are working part-time, increased uptake of shared parental, falling birth rate / more child-free people so less time off on maternity leave, etc etc.

I don’t know what the current ratio of female to male surgeons has to do with anything (the ratio is actually closer to 1:4, and that’s only at the consultant level - much higher representation at the registrar and trainee level). I was talking about pipeline and the changing demographics - women are entering surgery in greater and greater numbers but that is not the reason behind staffing shortages (much more likely to be an ageing + generally increasing population).

The only decent gynaecologists I have ever seen have been men. The women were very dismissive and examinations were painful. I would want to see the best person for the illness I have.

Not sure how anyone could come to that conclusion based on some individuals who don't agree with men practicing gynaecology.

I'm mixed on this one - I know that some are very good doctors, but I have read on here I think from someone who works with women that a small percentage go into the field because they really, really hate women. They get caught eventually - you can see the news stories that break every now and then - but I don't like taking that risk so avoid all of them.

It will never make sense to me.

I have Vaginismus and a male gynecologist told me I didnt have it

Shock to him when he found i was a physician myself.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I will put money on there being posts about how the best gynaecologist/midwife someone has ever seen was a man. The same goes for men in ANY traditional women’s role. They’re always the best, the most empathetic, the most popular, the smartest….I can only assume it’s linked to the narrative that makes a man who changes a nappy or is seen in public alone with his baby the BEST DAD EVER!!!

This is true, and it happens in all sorts of professions, people who seek out positions of power over others so that they can abuse the trust of (mostly) women, children, and the vulnerable. We all know a teacher from our youth that seemed to love humiliating or bullying kids, for example (esp. if you grew up in the 80s or before). There have been numerous cases of carers abusing the elderly or mentally ill - simply bc they get a kick out of it. Nursery workers abusing babies... We know that women can be just as corrupt, cruel or sexually deviant as men, and they have been better at hiding it up until now.

It's hard to completely prevent people like this from getting into positions of power, but we are getting better at spotting it and setting up mechanisims to call them out.

I certainly agree that banning men from certain professions will not prevent abusers, in some ways it can just open the door to more crafty abusers who are better at pretending to be caring. We can't just be blindly trusting of women and direct all our suspicions towards men.

That's a very touching story. I had a similar experience with a breast lump i was having investigated, the female consultant was training a male doctor and asked if i would let him do the initial examination and patient history, etc. I agreed, as he had to learn on someone. She left us to it. He was about 10 years younger than me and was exteremely caring and professional. It was quite funny as my breast lump was hard to find, i had to get in a particular position for it to be palpable, but we got through it. He was a natural and it didn't feel weird at all, i like to think he's out there doing a brilliant job for women to this day.

Urologists treat women too. I needed to see a urologist when I was experiencing horrendous recurrent/chronic UTIs. An invasive procedure was recommended, which I ended up not going through with, largely because I didn’t feel comfortable with my male urologist. That’s not to say I agree that men should be banned from gynaecology or urology; I’m sure there are some fantastic ones, and this thread shows many women are more than happy under their care. But it would be nice to have the choice. In my case, it took 6 months to even get a foot through the door with him, and there were no female urologists available to request.

Yep. Men are the best. Got it.

I prefer a male gynaecologist. I think they can be more understanding about something they’ve learned about in theory.

For example, I’m a woman who has never experienced PMT or period cramps. I always (privately) think my sister and friends are being dramatic when they moan about menstrual issues 🤷🏼‍♀️ P.s. I’d be a terrible gynaecologist 😂

Through personal experience, I also prefer male dentists.

Yes but the argument made by some is that female urologists should not be treating male patients.

Whether choice exists or not (not guaranteed by any means due to staff shortages), people are entitled to hold that belief as are women who believe gynaecologists should only be women based on the provisions in the Equality Act.

I was merely pointing out that legally, it isn't inherently discriminatory or sexist to hold that view or want to discuss it.

There’s no need to be defensive; I didn’t dispute any of those points you made at all - I agree with you! (As should be apparent from my post.) I was simply pointing out that urologists treat both men and women.

When you say "women can be just as ... Sexually deviant as men", do you have any sources to back that up?

I'm not saying for one moment that women in certain disciplines are angels. Yes, many have been caught on camera in some instances, neglecting and abusing children and older people in their care. That women can be cruel is not in dispute.

But to suggest that women can be as "sexually deviant" as men doesn't match up with the evidence.

First of all there are the crime statistics. And even clinical research backs up the theory.

Males are significantly overrepresented in clinically diagnosed paraphilias and forensic populations according to an American study (Office of Justice Programs, Chapter 2. Etiology of Adult Sexual Offending). One theory is because testosterone plays a major role in governing sexual thoughts, motivation and drive.

Now, I am NOT saying this applies to all men. And I am not debating whether women should not have a choice on who they see.

But to say that women can be "just as sexually deviant as men" isn't factually accurate and certainly isn't borne out by any of the evidence.

I don't mean that sexually deviant women are necessarily as numerous as the men, i mean that certain women are capable of just the same levels of sexual deviance as men.

There was a woman jailled just the other day for sexual abuse of childern in care. She would touch and humiliate them in the showers, and sit on them until they couldn't breathe (she was a large lady) to get her disgusting kicks. And we all know about the convent mother and baby homes.. child abuse, neglect and murder, and yes sexual abuse too, to such levels that it would have needed every woman to be complicit in those collective crimes.

The problem is that, like so many things involving women, the research and studies are just not there. Men of course are studied at length (like with everthing). I believe that we don't actually know the full extent to how many women are sexually deviant offenders, but the numbers are increasing as we learn to catch them. Women are not risk-takers like men, we're harder to spot, harder to catch, and victims are less likely to come forwards because they are less likely to be believed if their abuser is female.

My childhood friend's abuser was her aunt. No one believed her, and they still don't.

Fucking hell - it must be friday - the posts are starting to become crazy. Yes, YABU. Grow up!! Hes a Dr - he doesn't care about what you're comfortable with - hes trying to help you get better.