To think men should not be allowed to be gynaecologists

[CaragianettE]

Just that, really. Saw one last week. He was trying to be helpful, but I really really really don’t want to discuss ‘do you get clots’ ‘do you experience flooding’ ‘do you find intercourse painful’ with a strange man. Yes it would be awkward with a strange woman too, but at least I know she likely has some lived experience of what we are talking about. TBH I also question men’s motives for choosing this job, not just the licence to look at strange women’s vaginas, but I think there’s something deep in the male psyche that just loves laying down the law to women about their reproductive systems. It’s a job for a woman, and while I know men were allowed to train for it in the past, I think they should now be phased out.

YABU. I think you're within your rights to request a female consultant but not to dictate that men can't become gynaecologists at all.

I think you need to grow up a bit actually if you haven't got the maturity or empathy to imagine the vast amount of female experiences different to your own that might make this situation uncomfortable or even impossible due to past trauma.

Why, because womens health care is sooooo good right now, what with it being equally funded, evidenced based on an abudence of research, safe, and patients being listened to and promptly diagnoses?!

why, you think banning men will help with funding and research?
How is that going to work exactly?

Because MEN run studies like this, and MEN give studeis like this ethics commitee approval...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22985951/

Women clearly don’t feel comfortable with male midwives. Why should every woman feel comfortable with male gynaecologists? I think it’s ok for women to want female gynaecologists.

What the ever loving fuck did I just read. Good god.

Perhaps Professor Robert Winston should have taken a different path and we could all go back 50 years.

but you are not talking for all of us.

SOME women don't want male midwives. Some of us have no issue whatsoever with it.

No we wouldn't, because their are plenty of capable female scientitist and doctors and always have been, they just weren't allowed to shine.

apart from the fact that women were involved in that very article, (but women don't count do they, they never do...)
you are pretending that cutting all men from that area of medicine would be a step forward?

You want men to concentrate on "serious" health areas instead, and put women medicine at the bottom of the list?

and removing most of men who have a genuine interest in research and assisting others?

What could possibly go wrong

they can shine now, but if you pretend that the only way for them to have a voice in their field is to remove male competition, you are insulting and patronising all these women.

You can defend your point of view in sport, where male and female being separated is necessary for obvious reasons, but in medicine and science?

Some people like you REALLY cannot accept equality can they.

I can’t. I have ZERO choice. It’s one of 2 male gynaes in my hospital trust or nothing

Women don't have sex "with males" - makes them sound like rabbits. Gynae issues could start before they've had sex with anyone or when they are sexually inactive, or when they have only had female partners, or when they've had sex with the same man for 46 years.

What a charming post. Sounds like someone out of The Handmaid's Tale.

But it’s a fact that some women choose to leave the workforce relatively young or for a number of years when they have children.

It’s also more common in the professions as their partners tend to be high earners too and so they are better able to afford to do so.

This means that if you exchange male staff for female that you need more of them to end up with the same coverage.

It’s so predictable that many of the responses are “The BEST gynaecologists ever are men, and women actually suck at it.” Same as with threads about nursery workers. Mad levels of misogyny so close to the surface 🤢

YABU. Although I'm biased. My grandfather was the first doctor to perform the colposcopy in the UK.

He went to Germany to be trained in 1965, as they had been doing Colposcopies since the 1920's and we didn't do them. He then established the first colposcopy clinic in the UK. He also co-founded the British Colposcopy Group (now the BSCCP) as a way to standardise training and further the prevention of cervical cancer.

Saying that, Its not unreasonable to only want to be treated by a female where possible. I think everyone should be entitled to be treated by someone they feel comfortable with.

Should I allow a male vet to tend to my female cat?

Not as many as female. A year off per baby for mat leave, then reduced hours. It’s not a like for like situation

Some of the posts say that, some say the opposite, some are in between.

I don’t think that people should not be able to voice their opinions? And how insulting to suggest that’s misogyny.

Most have said women have the right to choose!

never occurred to you that some women ARE dismissive of other women's pain, because they don't experience it themselves, or they think you just get on with it - while men can be more respectful?

But nice of you to dismiss other women's experience because obviously they don't count. If you are not a male yourself, you are worst than them.

I’d just want the best gynaecologist. Couldn’t care less what bits they’ve got.

I don't think you can complain unless you also think it's unreasonable for a women to specialise in urology. What matters is whether they are good at their jobs.
Having said that I always prefer a female doctor and I assume you could have said you wanted to see a female doctor or have a chaperone in the room with you.

No i didn't claim that at all, i responded to someone claiming that without Robert Winston we would not have IVF. This isn't how science works. No scientist works in isolation, they build on what came before them. Brilliant minds in the right place at the right time. Given the opportunity a women would have achieved the same discovery around the same time, or a different man.

I hate all this "lived experience" bullshit. I work almost exclusively with incredibly wealth people. I am - sadly - not such a person. Should I not provide them with my services?

I have a psychiatrist (also qualified as an OBGYN) who specialises in women's psychiatric disorders. I see him for PMDD; a woman could not be any more understanding, knowledgeable and helpful than him. So what he has never personally experienced the symptoms of PMDD? Presumably, you only want to see a Dr who has had TB for your TB? An oncologist who has had cancer for your cancer? An orthopaedic surgeon with knees replaced for a knee replacement, but a different one with new hips for a hip replacement? Saying you need a woman for gynaecological services because she has "lived experience" is just as silly.