To wonder why anyone would want to live in America?

[allergon842]

I follow a woman on Instagram who moved from England to the States and someone commented "America is only great if you're white, rich, and healthy".

Putting aside Trump/politics, I've always found it weird why anyone would want/would have wanted to live there. I understand if you're from a developing country, but I don't see the appeal for anyone who comes from Europe. The lower taxes and opportunities are enticing, but if you can't make it, you can fall very easy with the lack of a safety net. It seems to be only decent if you're a top earner ($100,000+).

Well, it’s almost impossible to see a GP in many areas.
I had to go private for a a chronic, long term issue because the NHS fobbed me off with physio in which the therapist didn’t even touch me. In my first session I was asked to touch my toes and then told “you’re the first person I’ve seen be able to do that all week. Do this, this and this exercise” and then taken off the list.
I then paid for an MRI and a neurosurgeon diagnosed my condition. I will have to pay £2000 a year (most likely) in order to have any pain relief for the issue. As far as the NHS are concerned, I should just live with it.
It’s looking like we’re going to have to go private for an issue my four year old is facing as they have no concern with that either.

I love living in the UK and don’t think I would be as happy anywhere else. The NHS is fantastic for accident and emergency but beyond that, it’s lagging behind most other similar countries.

It is very common in large companies in certain industries. In my social circle (of professionals working across finance, consulting, tech, law and the media) the vast majority of us work for a company with unlimited PTO. In practice, people don’t take more than a few weeks off per year because there are performance targets to meet etc. I take 8 weeks off per year, compared to 5-6 weeks off when I worked in London. I was not generalising, I was talking about my experience of living here.

I moved to the US thinking I would have no more than 2 weeks’ annual leave, no paid sick leave and zero paid maternity leave. The reality is very, very different.

Have you been there OP? The landscapes are mind blowing. It’s an incredibly beautiful place in a lot of places.

LOL, I suppose it makes a change from all the UK bashing threads!

@allergon842 YANBU though. I wouldn't choose to live in America.

There’s an out-of-pocket cap meaning that you co-pay up to a certain amount. I believe my cap is $5,000 per year. I have good insurance so perhaps the average coverage has a higher cap, maybe $10,000.

One thing to note is that you can pay for any healthcare related costs from an HSA (health savings account) which you pay into with your pre-tax income. In other words, healthcare costs (premiums, deductibles, co-pay) are tax deductible.

All in all, I completely agree with PP. As a high earner, I would pay far less for NHS level of healthcare in the US. (As it happens, it’s much better quality healthcare and I still pay less.)

What treatment have you had to pay for on the NHS?

True. However, the vast majority of Americans - around 82% - have visited just 5 states - or less . (Out of 50.) Much of the USA may be a beautiful country, but most people who are born and raised there, and who work there and live there, will never see more than 8-10% of it.

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Right so you made a choice to go private (and i dont blame you) so again were not compairing like for like in terms of cost. My argument wasn't that the quality of care is better here, just that its cheaper. As I've already said, the USA do a lot of things better than we do, I dont disagree with that, but the cost of health care is not one of them.

It’s not cheaper if you are forced to choose between going private or not having treatment.
Of course not having treatment will be cheaper, it’d be free!

That'll depend on how good your medical insurance is in each country. If you want to compare private medical in the UK with private medical in the US, that's a different discussion.

You’re saying that health care is cheaper in the uk but basing that on the fact that many conditions are just ignored… which is ludicrous.

In that case, healthcare in the North Pole is the cheapest because it’s non-existent or you pay out of your arse for a private plane somewhere else.

I was shocked in san Francisco to see so many people living out of supermarket trolleys. Heartbreaking

@Naunet

Right so you made a choice to go private (and i dont blame you) so again were not comparing like for like in terms of cost. My argument wasn't that the quality of care is better here, just that its cheaper. As I've already said, the USA do a lot of things better than we do, I dont disagree with that, but the cost of health care is not one of them.

I agree. For all its flaws I wouldn't trade our NHS for what the Americans have, (which is basically nothing, unless they pay through the nose for it.)

A number of people I know have had really quick referrals and treatment this year so far. 2-3 years ago things were taking 1 to 1.5 years because of the backlog after the pandemic, but (in my area at least) it's caught up quite well.

One lady I know had a FIT test and had blood in her stool. She had an appointment with the colorectal clinic 4 days after the GP referred her, and the tests a week after that. (Tests were negative, and it turned out to be nothing - they think she may have strained when having a poo.)

I also know 2 women who had issues, one with her ankle and one with her shoulder, (both after minor accidents.) So they went to the GP, got an appointment 1-2 weeks after the referral, and the treatment/surgery was done/completed 4-5 weeks later. I don't think that private health care would have been much quicker!

Also, I don't have a problem getting a GP appointment if I want one/need one. I just fill in the Triage form online in the morning, someone rings me back within 2-4 hours, (or I get a text) and I get an urgent appointment that day, (or I can get a routine one within a week.) I also have an NHS dentist. 2 NHS dentists within 7 miles of me are taking on new patients.

I know some people still wait longer in certain areas of the country, and I know some people are still struggling to get a GP appointment, and an NHS dentist, but I think the NHS is improving. Sure, it's a bit shit in some areas, but to just say 'meh, the NHS is shit, it's on its knees, it needs privatising blah blah blah' is just ridiculous.

Anyone who thinks that the British NHS is 'shit' should move to America! See how you get on there if you're ill, and especially if you have any long term health conditions!

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No, I said the NHS is cheaper, which it is. I didn't say it was better, I just said it was cheaper. The vast, vast majority of conditions can be treated on the NHS, sometimes its a fight to get treatment and it shouldnt be. If we're including private medical, that's obviously different.

same to all of this. I’ve visited a lot of places in the US over 25 years from deepest Wyoming and Utah to California and Massachusetts, NY down to Miami but I would not like to live there now.
I think it’s become a basket case.

It’s not cheaper when they don’t cover treatments people need so we are forced to pay our taxes and pay for private treatment on top or live life in extreme amounts of pain.

Ugh so much ME ME ME on this thread. 🤦‍♀️

I can’t imagine living in a country where I’m on 200k+ plus with great health insurance and my neighbours kid can’t afford insulin

its just all types of wrong, at least in the UK that rarely happens no matter how large the gap between rich and poor

OK, I think we'll have to argee to disagree. I believe we have have to look at the full picture and not just our personal circumstances.

Your post made me realise how much my standards have changed since moving to the US. When I book to see my GP here (always same day appointment) and she refers me to a specialist, I see the specialist the same day. The only time I wouldn’t would be due to my unavailability, not theirs. Waiting 1-2 weeks to see a specialist when a potential problem has been identified seems quite alien to me now.

The bigger picture is that for accidents and emergencies, (life threatening) the NHS is exceptional.

For anything else (life limiting), you’d better have enough money to sort it out.

If you think the health outcomes of the rich and the poor in the UK are anywhere near equivalent, you’re living in cuckoo land.

Edit: meant to quote @LaurieFairyCake

Thats nonsense, I've had some excellent care under the NHS that wasn't in A&E. Do you think everyone with cancer goes private? You must live in a very privileged world.

Edited for your edit!

This is a country version question of the thread we had last week of "who would ever want to live in London' and I'll give a similar answer.

In London you don't live in the London you experience as the occasional visitor, the busy, tourist-crowded, expensive, rush-to-get-everything-done London, you live in your 'village' part of London that suits you best.

America is a vast place with almost every possible type of living experience. You might want big city life, rural farmlands, mountains, winter sports, oceans, island living, warm weather, seasons, no seasons, closeness to Canada, closeness to Mexico, glaciers, some of the most amazing natural wonders of the world. You can be anonymous in NYC, part of a close-knit tiny town, access to some of the best universities in the world. It's not the America of the news, or the movies on a day to day basis for most people.

Caveats:

There's no real social safety net - so if you are poor, lose your job and your health insurance, disabled etc, life can be very tough. But even that depends on where you live, some states have much better social programs than others. And some states have better laws protecting you from being expoited by the health care industries fees.

For example in Virginia there's a law that if you receive medical care in an emergency situation you won't be penalised if the insurance company don't usually cover the doctors assigned to you as part of that emergency. The insurance company will tell you that they won't cover the fee, but you are not responsible for it.

And the big one - because of politics and the current administion the last decade has been crazy and intensely polarizing - and it's hard to know how things will resolve and reset - but that's not a solo American problem - the waves of what we see from Trump and co, we can see in other countries too.

I know, I quoted the wrong person 🤦‍♀️