Thoughts on this article about being the childless friend

[PyongyangKipperbang]

I am a mother of six but I get it. My sister is childless, not through choice, and if I couldnt do anything with her because of the kids I would always try to have a Plan B "I cant do X date as its the nativity that day, but any other day is fine". She understood and we worked out how to make it work.

I have friends without kids who have had this sort of treatment so I do get it.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/64-childfree-parent-friends-lives-important-4398708?utm_source=firefox-newtab-en-gb

I was the childless friend for years before my two were born, never thought twice about being the one to travel to their house so they didn’t have to pack the children up in their car, or work around their children’s schedules, or had any issue with plans having to change because there was a child related emergency. It’s common sense that you have to adapt when someone’s life changes dramatically and I was always happy to make the extra effort

I agree this lady doesn't come across well but, there is truth in that childless and single people are often treated as less than by some parents and couples. I want to caveat this with the understanding that of course parents and couples will prioritise their partner and kids. For single, childless people friends are really really important. If we don't see our friends we are alone. For people in relationships or with kids (of any age) often they will usually always have company so don't feel the need to socialise much outside the family.

I have felt an underlying vibe from some friends with kids that I'm somehow not a serious person with an inner life, that I've not grown up in some way.

I get that parents are often knackered and don't have the capacity or want to meet up much but to be on the receiving end of that kind of friendship can feel very diminishing. Some friends that mean the world to you see you as a distant addition.

I do have childless friends and single friends and those are more reciprocal. I think that it's hard to have relationships when one of you has kids and the other doesn't as they are such different places to be in, socially and emotionally. Neither side is to blame.

I also think that there has been a massive shift in socialising and sense of community. In my parents generation it was common to see friends and have hobbies etc whilst the kids were small and once they had grown up. Now, not so much, especially since COVID. It's increasingly common for people to focus only on their job, partner and or kids and there isn't anything left over for anyone else. So I think it's harder for single people without kids to find community and a sense of a place in the world etc.

As an aside, I've often seen posts from mums who explain a similar need for friends and community once kids leave home, they say they didn't really have time for this whilst bringing them up and all of a sudden there is a lot of time and space and they want to fill it with others.

For me I expected some understanding from my friends when I had babies and toddlers and was sleep deprived but there came a point where I knew that I had to be prepared to give something back. I had to make the effort to take an interest in things outside of my own children and in my friends lives because otherwise it's a piss take.

I'm sorry but barring severe illness or disability no one with an older child needs to have an all consuming relationship with them that leaves nothing left for their friends. Besides it's unhealthy for the child. Your child, especially if they're an adult, won't suffer because you're spending some time with a friend and can't reply immediately.

The trouble is, from my perspective. Those with children only want to spend their free time, even when it’s childfree free time, with other parents. I was excluded from many nights out/meet ups/coffee trips as my friends with children only wanted to do these things with their friends who were parents.

I never had children and think that’s why I barely have any female close friends now. Women just aren’t interested in other women who aren’t parents.

I think part of the reason is that it's easy, it's easy to hang out with other parents who live nearby with kids the same age etc.

Hmm. As a childfree woman in my 50s, I agree with some, but not all, of the author's points.

The general point that children come before friends is reasonable in an 'all other things being equal' sort of way. I wouldn't expect friends to put me before their children.

However, I agree with her that it was very rude to spend an afternoon together with a friend constantly on the phone to her daughter about a non-urgent thing, and to hang up on someone when your children call (unless it's an emergency).

The thing where parents drift into conversation that excludes non-parents is also annoying, but it's the kind of thing we all do thoughtlessly from time to time - e.g. drifting into 'shop talk' with colleagues when non-colleagues are also there - it's human nature, though a considerate person would be aware if someone was being left out of a conversation for any reason, and make efforts to include them.

It’s just life. People often feel similarly when they’re the only one of their friends that does have children, or if their single in a group of couples or in a relationship in a group of singles.

I don’t think this is true, at least not universally.
As much as I enjoy being a parent it can be so all encouraging from day to day that it’s a relief to know that the conversation isn’t going to circle back to kids when I'm spending time with my childfree friends.

That doesn't make any sense. What about women who aren't parents themselves, are they allowed to be interested in other women? or women who haven't had kids yet, does that mean nobody has any female friendships in until they have kids? The average age of first child is just over 30 now - are you saying most women don't have any interest in making friends for the first third to half of their life? Because that's obviously untrue!

On one hand, as the author of that article said at the end, if you're struggling with being the last priority of friends with kids, making friends with other childfree women (or even with women whose kids are older or whatever) is sometimes a good option. However I can't see that segregating people more and more into narrow echo chambers to the point where we only spend time with people who are 'just like us' is necessarily a good thing.

whatwouldlilactulldo She is single ,and has made a career of saying she wanted to be and of many proposals! I think most people will prioritise their DC and her situation isnt that unusual .

Not me! Most of my social life is with people who aren’t parents! ( even though I have two school age kids)

My kids are in their 20’s and I’m now relishing being able to not think or talk about them all the bloody time. I get bored with other parents my age so for someone who hasn’t got children it must be so tedious to just hear about kids all the time.

I do look for friends who, like me are over this parenting lark now our kids are adult or childfree/childless. However, I find that childfree people seem to be waiting for me to let them down and revert to type - it makes me sad that they feel this way and also slightly annoyed that I’ve been lumped in with parents who aren’t actually like me!

This is so true. Once your kids are adults, unless there is a genuine emergency, I really don't see why you cant be focussed on spending a few hours with a friend. But many parents now seem to feel everything else must be dropped the minute their adult child summons them. A long people here are actually proving this womans point

Yes, I work with a lot of women whose adult children are still so dependent on them and I find it very strange (probably because after my dad died my mum sold the family home and moved into a rented studio apartment so at 20 I had no choice but to "launch" 😀).

But maybe I'm lucky (as a childless woman) as my friends with children have never left me out or made me feel less important.

Having said that, I'm 62 and I'm finding the new grandparents really bloody tedious!

Just read the article - the same way people probably don’t wanna hear about my kids, I don’t wanna hear about ‘another disastrous date’. I know women with kids who are boring and childfree women who are also boring. Maybe you’re just a drain.

No, I’m saying that, in my experience, I’ve been dropped/excluded by people who were previously friends, but when they had kids it was like I didn’t exist. Always an excuse as to why they couldn’t meet with me for lunch say, but then I’d see them on SM out with their friends who were parents.

The only time I have noticed this was when my husband's best friend, wife and kids visited a tourist attraction near us. He was really hurt that they hadn't told us they were in the area. If they only had time to visit the attraction we would happily have met them there but it was like they didnt even realise they were so close to us. We used to see them a few times a year but since they had kids it has dwindled we have met their 10 year old only 3 times and their 8 year old only once. There Facebook is full of pictures of them going out with their other parent friends but cos we don't have kids it's like we are of no interest to them anymore. We like kids and would be happy to meet them in a child friendly environment if they'd just let us be involved.

Maybe?

I'm surprised she feels this way at 64.

I do understand what she's saying, we pretty much lost our friendship group when everyone started having kids because none of them wanted to go out any more. It's especially difficult when your friend group includes couples because they have to get a babysitter to go out together.

We used to go on nights out all the time. Now if we do arrange anything at least one of the couple drives, because no one wants a hangover with kids, and they're always tired or have to get back to babysitters and want to go home by 10pm. It's just not the same and feels much less fun and free now.

The others meet up more often because they do kid things together, but no-one invites child free couples to kid stuff and to be honest it wouldn't be my favourite way to spend the day anyway.

We just found new friends, but most of them are older than us and have grown up kids. At 64 I'd have thought her friends would have been past the restrictive parenting stage.