School toilets

[Sweetheart1990]

School toilets!
Son text me to say he had walked out of lesson after being refused permission to go to the toilet, he had finished all his work. I have always told him to do this if he is desperate but he never actually has before.
He has been put in isolation.
I'm angry as I really believe that students should be allowed to go when they need to and he had completed all tasks so was just say in the classroom anyway.
What does everyone else think?

It's not designed for that. It's so that pupils are prepared for lessons and taking toilet breaks at break time or between lessons. It's probably had to come about following pupils abusing the opportunity so the minority spoil it for everyone unfortunately.

But still, I'd rather my child break the rules in this one instance than have an accident in class. I have had 3 kids go through secondary so far and they've never needed to do this but they knew they had my backing if they did. They weren't unruly kids and didn't get behaviour points or detentions so me telling them to disregard this one rule in an emergency didn't make them deliquent.

Ugh - I'm sorry that that has been your experience. I always told the kids that the cleaner's job was to deal with the normal, day to day, unavoidable grime of schools and not to pick up cut bits of paper or pencil shavings that they couldn't be bothered to take to the bin! Really annoyed me.

I’m still interested to know from the OP, whether her son was actually in isolation and what the staff view on the incident was. So much confusion arises because of poor communication on all sides.

It’s a situation that seems to have polarised responses. It’s certainly true that teachers can’t leave the classroom and have to wait. Female teachers with morning sickness in the early stages of pregnancy can really struggle.

It would be great to think that you could have toilets that are well cared for and treated with care. Sadly, the experience of teachers posting on here and the vast majority of teachers I know and my own experience, is that they are not often trashed, which makes it unpleasant for the vast majority who don’t do that, as well as dispiriting for the people who have to clean and repair the mess.

Of course human beings must have toilets accessible to them. That doesn’t mean that, for the majority of people, they can’t wait a few minutes and for those who have conditions, surely arrangements can be made.

Absolutely and I'm the same but I would have to support the punishment. If they didn't go before the lesson and understood the rules then they have to accept that. I wouldn't expect them not to break the rules but I'd have to accept how the school choose to deal with that and hopefully it wouldn't happen again.

It's surely got to be reasonable punishment though, isolation for going to the toilet (provided they went straight there and back and were polite about it) seems massively ott

But if there is a huge rush for the toilets and you have 1000+ pupils and say 50 toilets then they need longer breaks because the maths doesn’t add up.

a school day has few opportunities to use the loo, break time is busy and hectic… everyone’s bladder is different etc I think it is BARBARIC that schools do this. My son was avoiding drinking all day as he was too intimidated to go to the loo in year 7 as a there were crowds of older kids all in them at break time. It was fine in the 80’s & 90’s what’s the difference now? Honestly it really upsets me

UPDATE

So after speaking to the school and my son, my son asked to go to the toilet 3 times, politely and not interrupting anything the teacher was doing, she said no each time, the last time he said to her "I'm sorry miss but I have to go" and left the room, because he was in pain by this point, they are also not allowed to use the toilets in-between lessons so this wasn't an option. He went back to the lesson and got his things and was told to go to isolation for "making a poor choice". The head of year came to see him in isolation and lectured him on attendance and rules. He then told my son that it was possibly a suspension, and that apparently "80% of students that get suspended end up in prison" (I have not idea why he would even say that!
He then said he would advocate to the head teacher that he shouldn't be suspended, also asked him why I had ring up (at this point no one had got back to me, and they didn't until I went into the school to chase up) he then sent him back to his lessons.

You'd be fine with a teacher leaving your DS unsupervised in a class? Sure you would. You totally wouldn't complain if your son got hurt while he was unsupervised...

You're being very unsupportive of the school. Absolutely ridiculous to tell your child he doesn't have to follow any rules and you'll get him out of the consequences. That'll lead to a wonderful future for him, won't it

Unless he has a medical issue he should be able to hold it in for the duration of the gap between breaks in a school day. Assuming registration is at 8:50 and there is no opportunity to go to the loo between registration and first lesson that's still only an hour - so if he was desperate at 9:50 then presumably he didn't go when he last had the chance just before registration. The school rule is simply that all pupils are expected to see to their toilet needs during the breaks. He didn't do that, so yes he deserves the punishment. Not for leaving the lesson (which is the secondary consequence of the original fault, because obviously having let himself get that desperate it's better not to wet yourself in front of classmates) but for prioritising whatever he did instead of going to the toilet when he had a legitimate reasonable chance, because the crisis would never have arisen if he was behaving responsibly in the first place.

If a child has a genuine medical issue that means they can go from only-just-had-a-wee to so-bursting-I'll-wet--myself in less than 60 minutes then it would be disability discrimination not to allow a toilet break. All other children should be expected to cope with doing a quick wee before/after every lesson if their bladder is on the small side, or every other lesson for most of them as it's perfectly normal to be able to go 2-3 hours between wees, and will never need to do so during a lesson. The root cause of the issue is your son's arrogant assumption that he doesn't need to care about this. That does warrant a disciplinary action.

Will he also get into trouble for using his phone to text you?

He has enough common sense to know which rules make sense and should have consequences. He also knows where I would stand on them, might surprise people to know I'm very strict with him in terms of his work and attitude and is never accept bad behavior at home or school, I just don't agree with someone who needs the toilet not being allowed to go. If certain kids abuse the system then fair enough, call their parents and tell them they won't be allowed to go in lesson times, but for the majority of kids who go there and back without issue, allow them

Registration 8.30, first opportunity 11.50 and that of you can get a toilet whilst everyone else is trying to.

No student is threatened with suspension for urgently needing the toilet.

More to this than OP is letting on.

He actually was, he said it is a form of truancy to leave a class from without permission.i know they will not suspend him, it was obviously said to him to scare him

I think the vast majority of parents absolutely understand the pressure you teachers are under and how vile and destructive some of your pupils are .
I respect teachers and the education they have given my children.
But i will not accept my child being refused permission to use a toilet , if they have a genuine need there is no excuse i will accept for them being denied this human right.
As previously said i do not know the answer but then i do not work in education and as this problem has been going on quite a while now i would have thought methods and plans would have been worked out by now how to handle the situation.
This is not my problem to solve , my only concern as a parent would be the absolute trauma that my kid may find themselves in if they weren't allowed to leave the room, and some kids as you know won't shout their mouths off when denied the toilet but will sit quietly in distress and possibly have an accident.

I disagree. You wouldn’t sit through the meeting and wet yourself. You’d make your apologies and excuse yourself for a couple of minutes.

Yes, this is true. At my DS's school, they also have very little time for their lunch break and he's constantly feeling rushed - like eating is a necessary chore that you have to get over and done as soon as possible. Of course, lessons don't always end on time, so that cuts into their time even more.

I know schools are primarily there for education; but it would be nicer if they could be treated more like valued human beings and less like they're on a fast-moving conveyer belt. Like most schools, they subscribe fully to all of the wellbeing and care and compassion programmes with the great soundbites, but then they undo any good work in how they're treated day to day.

My DS is studious, responsible and very well-behaved, and he used to really enjoy school - but the shine has been taken off it now with a lot of the assumptions of bad behaviour and collective treatment and restrictions/punishments as though they're all like that. He wouldn't misbehave, as that just isn't him; but you can well see the temptation to lower your standards and conduct, if you're going to be automatically treated like you're naughty regardless.

This is not as black and white as this. I’m a secondary teacher and it’s not just some, but most pupils who abuse their right to go to the toilet. Most who ask out to the toilet do so at inappropriate times. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet have been out of every other lesson that day. Most pupils who ask out to the toilet are doing so to vape/meet up with pals/use their phones/bully others. The reasonable, sensible pupils tend to manage to go before or between classes. There are occasions when that isn’t the case, but the problem with that is that, as a teacher, I have to come up with a reason that I let your son out and not the 5 that I don’t believe that I said no to in the previous 15 minutes. I can’t say to them cause you’re lying and he’s not.

There has to be a blanket rule, or teachers are put in an impossible position. It’s not a far stretch to understand the school must have an issue with the toilets if they have someone permanently posted outside to monitor behaviour.

So what is your DS going to do differently tomorrow? Or the next time he needs the bathroom?

I have told him to go to the toilet at any opportunity, of you happen to need it in lesson, badly, do not sit in pain, ask politely and if you cannot wait then do the same thing again. Explain that you have to leave and leave quietly and calmly. I cannot see it being an issue over and over again he's In year 10 and I've always told him the same advice and it's never happened until today. I'm not going to tell him to wet himself in a lesson of the issue ever happens again.

I don’t expect students to ask to go to the toilet, they can just get up quietly and go to the bathroom.

Other staff members went on and on about it for a while but they seem to have learned that my philosophy of trust and responsibility actually works. It’s very rare for anyone to abuse the ‘privilege’.

I also let students eat in class if they are hungry, ask questions without raising their hand etc. I don’t introduce unnecessary rules, I just expect the young people to conduct themselves properly and they do.

I completely agree with you here OP.

He'll do whatever he wants because his disregarded for the rules and authority is being encouraged by his mother.

My child had to do the same. She was desperate and had asked 3 times to be excused but the teacher said no. There was another hour until break so she walked out of the class before she wet herself.