To ask if I’m a crap, ineffective parent, or …

[letsgetready]

Is it really difficult to deal with some stuff?

Five year old ds; has started with some very unpleasant behaviour. This involves foot stamping, shouting, yelling and hissing at me whenever I say something he doesn’t like (which is often correcting some sort of behaviour.)

So for example he will be doing something he shouldn’t be; I will tell him not to (and often ignored the first two / three times) then tell him sharply / firmly, to which he’ll respond angrily and the situation escalates.

I feel like I shouldn’t ignore such rudeness but I’m lost with how to deal with it?

No ignoring his rudeness won't work. He will keep using his behaviour in this way as it silences you.

Oh forgive me I misread you. I thought you wrote you thought you should ignore it!

No, not at all, it’s just very difficult to deal with as anything you do do seems to inflame the situation and make him angrier!

It’s making life so stressful as any mild rebuke seems to set him off at the moment.

Don't tell him 2 or 3 times to stop doing something he shouldn't - tell him once and then physically intervene and stop him, calmly without any fuss. If he's rude to you, there should be an immediate consequence. I would remove him from the room for a few minutes and then say 'you were rude to mummy and you need to say sorry'. If he refuses, you say you will have to stay here until you are ready to say sorry. No shouting, stay calm but firm. He will push back at first until he learns that you mean business. The key is to be consistent and follow through every single time so that he learns you mean what you say. It will take time, he will not get it immediately but if you're consistent, it will work.

It isn’t always possible to physically intervene, and in any case that would have the same result (the anger and shouting etc which is what I’m really asking about.)

He is going to his room but it’s happening so frequently I feel he’s spending half his life there.

One warning followed by a consequence. Totally ignore his anger, just remove him to his room. When he’s done his time calmly remind him why it happened and ask for an apology. It will sink in eventually, consistency is the key.

Right but what I’m saying is that it isn’t working, that it’s inflaming the situation and consistency is making no difference?

Can you explain what happens exactly. A real example. Because it’s not clear enough for us to advise. But if you just want to know if it’s normal for it to be hard the answer is yes. But « ton of bricks » is the only answer. I had 2 with a 14 month age gap. There was a period of about 2 weeks when they spent a lot of time « in the corner » any time we went out. I could find a corner bloody anywhere. Even the toy shop.

I might be an outlier here but those actually sound like quite healthy ways for him to express his anger - unless he's hitting you or being physical or name calling, why should he not shout? Or do you expect him not to be angry about anything? I personally think forbidding 'rudeness' at this age essentially just teaches kids their negative emotions aren't acceptable, they don't have enough impulse control yet to choose kind words to express anger. When my 5yo is angry with me, as long as he's not name-calling or hitting, I just acknowledge he's angry and ask if he'd like to talk about it or be by himself for a while. Often he'll stomp off into another room and come back when he's calmed down.

Watch some supernanny episodes! Shes calm yet firm. Even the most challenging behaviour does not get a rise out of her and eventually through routine and clear, unwavering boundaries the child learns the right behaviours.

One extra bit of advice i would give - stick to your threats. If you say you're taking something away - make sure you do!

I don’t think you can do anything to make him not be angry, if that’s how he feels in the moment. It’s very difficult for a child that age to repress their emotions, so him expressing his anger is pretty normal.

What would you say if your childs teacher reported they had been yelling, stamping their feet and hissing at them when they were told what to do? Is that still healthy and acceptable?

Its a long game!

The hard thing with kids is it can take weeks or even months to see results of consistent discipline.

You need a clear, firm consequence that is imposed immediately in the moment. Don't confuse his angry reaction as "it's inflaming the situation". If course he is cross he's been told off. Send him off to calm down.

This, what is wrong with them stamping their little feet? My main issue was struggling not to laugh at things like that.

Also give him tools to manage the angry feeling. Something that distracts can help. Count backwards from ten, squeeze the cushion off the sofa hard, put a song on. Don't expect him to not get/feel cross or angry its normal.

Also - carrot works better than stick. Reward him when he doesn't react like this when told off and be clear about it. "Well done DS, I know you are upset that I told you not to do x, but you've kept your temper".

There was a period of about 2 weeks when they spent a lot of time « in the corner » any time we went out. I could find a corner bloody anywhere. Even the toy shop.

Yep! There's a reason people have been getting kids to sit/stand in the corner since time immemorial. Its because they need a minute to cool off away from stimuli!!

I think quite a lot of this age is about learning when anger and upset is a valid reaction to something and when it’s not. I don’t think it’s healthy to let them indulge in their anger all the time - that way you get the teacher phoning you up and pointing out your kid is a vile little horror.

No tolerance and consistency, he needs to learn that in most cases shouting and stamping is not an acceptable reaction to what are probably reasonable requests. Fine to be angry if someone’s smashed a toy of yours, not so much if it’s because mum has turned the tv off.

There are two different issues going i’m here. One is his emotional state. The other his expression of His emotional state.

never in the history of humanity can a human be forced into not being in their emotional state without fucking up their emotional framework and turning them into adults with serious issues.

the goal isn’t to invalidate the anger. It’s to guide them to express their anger in a safe, productive and non aggressive manner.

demanding they stop their anger is not ever going to work. It’s about acknowledging and validating the anger and helping them regulate themselves.

we all know what adults who never learned to self regulate turn into

It's fairly normal for kids to get angry at you when you tell them off. I wouldn't worry about that at all. If you find how he's expressing his anger to be rude, give him an acceptable way to show it and deal with it.

Talk to him when everything is calm (not when he's being told off) and say it's ok to be angry, but not ok to be rude. Everyone gets angry sometimes. It's a big, overwhelming, difficult feeling and then it goes away. Tell him that different people have different ways of dealing with feeling angry. It can help to name it out loud - he could say 'I'm angry mummy'. Some people scream into a cushion. Some people listen to loud music and jump around. Some people take deep breaths. Some people need alone time. Practice doing some of those things, it will be silly pretending to be angry and screaming into cushions together. That's good! Ask him which thing he thinks would help him when he's angry.

Then when it it all kicks off after he's been told off you say in your best no nonsense voice "You're showing me that you're really angry that I told you off. You're allowed to be angry. But you're not allowed to be rude. Let's try (whatever option he picked)" . He'll probably say no, but you push on regardless and start doing whatever option he picked.

It won't work the first time, or probably the fifth time you try it. It needs consistency like anything else. Keep returning to the conversation about anger is OK, rudeness is not. This is what you can do instead when he's calm and able to engage with it

It's a stand off. Don't let him think you'll blink first. You're the adult and you're in charge.

This, exactly this. You’re getting into a battle of wills right now. Much better to redirect his anger until he’s learned to deal with it.

"Do this" is better than "Don't do that"

eg "sit quietly" is better than "stop shouting"

Best to be kind, firm and consistent

And stay calm yourself

Teaching children to express negative feelings appropriately is not telling them that their feelings don’t matter, it is equipping them with a skill that will make it easier to get through school, easier to keep friends, and eventually easier to keep a job. Being strict about not being rude, while also equipping them with the confidence to discuss anything they are unhappy with in an appropriate way at an appropriate time is difficult but worthwhile.
How you do that is really down to the individual child unfortunately; it would be a lot easier if there was some trick that worked with all of them! We usually follow up “No” with a true (and age appropriate) explanation so DC understands why they’re being stopped from doing what they want.

Feel with not deal with - it’s really effective with my quick to anger ds. Sayings and statements like “you look really angry” etc and talk through their emotions rather than trying to correct them in the moment. He finds it hard to regulate and calm down.

It comes very loosely from the book which I think is called “the book you wish your parents had read”, I have it on Audiobook.

Not super helpful right now - I can go and reread it but it was amazing in exactly these situations. I didn’t want to not post as I have totally been there, my ds is 7 now and it helped me stay calm and manage it all.