To wonder how to get children to sleep earlier?

[jowto]

My five year old is a nightmare at the moment. Rude, argumentative, whiny and sulky.

I need to get him in bed earlier but how when he just won’t stay still in bed, squirms and rolls and can’t just lie down and - sleep.

It was nearly ten o clock last night when I finally got him to sleep. I am losing my mind: any ideas appreciated.

Is he getting enough physical exercise? DS (7) has to be exercised like a puppy, also he always has a bath or shower before bed, then reading time before lights out he reads to us now or to himself but when he was younger we read to him, a fan has also helped in the heat, to keep cool but also I think the white noise helps. He's on the shower now and will be in bed by 7.

Yep. Wear him out, and then some quiet down time after a bath.

Lots of fresh air, even if it is raining.
Minimal screen time.
Fairly carb-heavy supper. Cheese on tiast, lentil soup, bananas in some form.
Warm bath and soporific bedtime story.
Worked wonders with a 4 and 6 year old.

Exercise. Lots and lots

Are you kidding me? He’s been non stop on the go. Out from dawn till dusk and I’m really not exaggerating. And then still won’t keep still; climbing over sofas and pacing around. But thanks 😂

What time are you waking him in the morning ?

I'm guessing he's just not tired? Some kids seem to have naturally low sleep needs (mine included). If that's the case there is not much you can do other than adjust expectations around sleep. The heat probably won't help but we found the daylight patterns at this time of year were definitely conducive to a better sleep pattern as there is a more logical day = light and night = dark going on. Can you exploit anything like that to set up a new routine?

The thing is if someone told you to lie and go to sleep, you couldn’t. And 5 year olds don’t necessarily understand that that’s not exactly what you mean. They are sometimes privately fretting that they don’t know how to do the thing you are asking of them and it makes them anxious and more likely to try to postpone the moment.
Try switching the emphasis from telling him to go to sleep and tell him to rest quietly in bed instead. He’s not in charge of his feelings like tiredness, boredom or anxiety but he is in charge of his body so he can stay quietly in bed, with his head on the pillow and close his eyes. Those are all things you can reasonably require him to comply with.
Don’t get drawn into discussions or arguments. And praise him when he’s doing the right things. Also, is his room dark enough?
How well does he follow your instructions during the day?

Is there any scenario, no matter how inconvenient, where he does fall asleep earlier? (e.g. if you're driving in the car, if you get into bed with him, if he's watching a film, if he stays at Grandma's)

If so it tells you that he is tired at that time of day, and you can often use the inconvenient sleep method as a starting point to transition to something more sustainable.

Lot of exercise.
Good diet.
No screens.
Boundries.

How are people supposed to know he was out from dawn to dusk? You asked for advice.

In eleven years he won’t come out of his room so just crack on until then.

Sorry if it came over aggressively; that wasn’t the intention at all that said, I kind of need help before he turns sixteen. It affects him; he’s tired, behaviour isn’t great and I think he’s got a big sleep debt.

@BertieBotts no he doesn’t sleep in the car.

He won’t stay still long enough to watch TV and he eats pretty well and as I’ve said gets loads of exercise. I don’t know what else to do tbh.

We wake our DSes up at 6.30 every day or they struggle to get to sleep.

Unfortunately you can't force him to sleep, but you can insist he stays in bed and make it as boring as possible. No eye contact, no talking and just keep putting him back in bed. It will take a few nights and he will push back at first but you need to be relentless and stick with it. Have a winding down period after tea, quiet time with a bit of lego or jigsaws, then bath, stories, cuddles and then kiss goodnight, lights out. Stay calm & firm, low voice and stick to the routine no matter what. Remember you are the one in charge and you know what's best for him.

He sometimes does get out of bed to go to the toilet etc but mostly it’s just dicking about in bed.

I will get lynched, but have you considered ADHD?

Excessively active/ "on the go" all day
Climbs excessively
Will not stay seated

These are 3 of the symptoms in the checklist and you only need 6.

Difficulty falling asleep
Emotional dysregulation
Argumentative

These are not in the official symptom list, because they overlap with too many other potential causes, but they are also highly associated with ADHD both in anecdotal experience but also research.

Have you tried a magnesium supplement? You can get them for kids.

Same Bedtime routine every night: Dinner, CBeebies bedtime hour programme (timed to get the bit where they play the bedtime song) bath with toys, into bed talk about the day and read to him, he reads to you, maybe an audible book.

both my kids really thrived on the routine. I think my DS was about 8 years old before he even thought about staying awake past 7pm! I loved CBeebies - literally so helpful when the tv is telling them it’s time for bed.

Tbf mine had that routine from very young. So it would be harder to implement with a 5 year old. Whatever you choose, I def think consistency is your friend - that way they know what is coming and it’s not up for discussion.

Ime nothing. Focus on them being in bed. Forget the sleep, they'll drop off as and when. Make the focus them being in their own bed from a set time. You can't force anyone to sleep.

Yoto or sleep meditations/audiobooks on your phone on a portable speaker in his room.
Maybe bath and light fun yoga before bed or wrestling on the bed to get some more last minute energy out

What time is he waking
Otherwise you will have to do rewards/punishments for being silly at bedtime pinging up and out of bed all the time.
Can he read in bed for a little while and then lights out & lamp on?
Fan in room so it's cooler

has he got an audio player of some sort? That has really helped both mine at your son’s age wind down by lying in bed and not consciously “going to sleep”- ie they think they’re just listening to something and after a while they’re just asleep..

I agree with routine and things being dull. Cut out any iPads and YouTube and stick to traditional slower paced TV on the actual TV. You could maybe try him on a yoga ball or a spinning office chair. Just one programme as part of the routine then bath, story bed.

Maybe make a visual timetable.

Make sure you are as organised as possible so that you aren’t going to the supermarket or whatever on the way home from school.

Steel yourself for some bad nights. Get yourself a book so that when he comes out of his room there is nothing at all interesting happening. Then it’s ’it’s time to lie down now’.

You have to harden your heart a bit if you haven’t already.

Failing that my natural go tos are magnesium foot cream, rubbed in before bed after a nice bath with lavender and magnesium salts in !! Never fails
Also like a lavender pillow spray.

Thanks. He has a Tonie but I think that’s keeping him awake as he’s messing about putting new ones on and taking them off.

There’s never anything interesting happening, I guess I’m just worried it’s affecting his development. It was around 10 he fell asleep last night and he woke around 645, which just doesn’t seem enough at all. Then we get huge emotional meltdowns over nothing and then wired pacing behaviour in the evening which in all honesty is really stressful.

I think it depends on the child.

None of the bedtime routine suggestions have ever worked for my child who is a similar age. Some children do just have lower sleep needs. We are out at the park or forest or beach most days, have no small screens and minimal TV and still have late bedtimes so have decided to go with the flow. They are not going to sleep at 7 or 8 and I'm not wasting my evenings trying to make the impossible happen.