Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder how to get children to sleep earlier?

48 replies

jowto · 30/05/2026 18:23

My five year old is a nightmare at the moment. Rude, argumentative, whiny and sulky.

I need to get him in bed earlier but how when he just won’t stay still in bed, squirms and rolls and can’t just lie down and - sleep.

It was nearly ten o clock last night when I finally got him to sleep. I am losing my mind: any ideas appreciated.

OP posts:
Happytaytos · 30/05/2026 19:27

jowto · 30/05/2026 19:24

Thanks. He has a Tonie but I think that’s keeping him awake as he’s messing about putting new ones on and taking them off.

There’s never anything interesting happening, I guess I’m just worried it’s affecting his development. It was around 10 he fell asleep last night and he woke around 645, which just doesn’t seem enough at all. Then we get huge emotional meltdowns over nothing and then wired pacing behaviour in the evening which in all honesty is really stressful.

This is my life. But I can't make him sleep.

We've started to do a soft bedtime with yoto and lights on, then about an hour later, lights off, full dark and calm yoto.

vladimirVsvolodymr · 30/05/2026 19:29

Sometimes I give my 5 year old a weak herbal night tea (from Lidl purple box) steeped in 3 clove seeds. Much cheaper than magnesium sprays 🤣

WhatAMarvelousTune · 30/05/2026 19:29

Does it matter particularly? From the age of about 3.5 with our eldest we just said goodnight, turned off the light, went downstairs, and she could do what she wanted. If she wanted to mess about, then 🤷🏻‍♀️ Us spending time trying to make her stay in bed, make her go to sleep just kept her up longer tbh.
We used to go in before we went to bed and find her asleep on the floor, we’d pop her in bed. She’s 7 now and great at going to bed, reading, turning the light off at the right time, and going to sleep.

Food and sleep are things I decided you can’t make children do. You can just present them with the right stuff that they need. For sleep, that is active days, calm evening routine, and a safe sleeping environment.

Keroppi · 30/05/2026 19:31

Perhaps a Bluetooth speaker controlled by your phone with a playlist is better as he can't mess with it?

jowto · 30/05/2026 19:35

@WhatAMarvelousTune I used to be like this and maybe there’s something in it. But he’s going to sleep so late and he is getting extremely emotional and exhausted. It’s no exaggeration to say I’m ready for bed before he is at the moment. I guess I just feel like if we could break the habit of late bedtimes it would help.

OP posts:
dizzydizzydizzy · 30/05/2026 19:45

BertieBotts · 30/05/2026 19:05

I will get lynched, but have you considered ADHD?

Excessively active/ "on the go" all day
Climbs excessively
Will not stay seated

These are 3 of the symptoms in the checklist and you only need 6.

Difficulty falling asleep
Emotional dysregulation
Argumentative

These are not in the official symptom list, because they overlap with too many other potential causes, but they are also highly associated with ADHD both in anecdotal experience but also research.

My thoughts exactly.

DC2 was like this and actually still is (now early 20s). Psychiatrist told them to take magnesium in the evenings. I don’t think they bother to take it ….. because, um, they have ADHD.

So at age 5, DC1 (no ÀDHD) crashed out at 7:30 and had to be woken up at 7:30 the next day. DC2 went to sleep probably at 8:30 or 9 and woke up every single morning at 5.

You have my sympathies, OP. It is exhausting.

jowto · 30/05/2026 19:48

BertieBotts · 30/05/2026 19:05

I will get lynched, but have you considered ADHD?

Excessively active/ "on the go" all day
Climbs excessively
Will not stay seated

These are 3 of the symptoms in the checklist and you only need 6.

Difficulty falling asleep
Emotional dysregulation
Argumentative

These are not in the official symptom list, because they overlap with too many other potential causes, but they are also highly associated with ADHD both in anecdotal experience but also research.

It’s a huge worry of mine at the moment.

OP posts:
Pineapplewhip · 30/05/2026 19:52

What is he actually doing instead of sleeping?

Thechaseison71 · 30/05/2026 20:13

I had " late" sleeper child with my eldest. By age 5 or 6 the deal was she could stay in bed and read or play something quiet ( wasn't screens then) but wasn't allowed out of bedroom after 8pm

I wouldn't attempt to get them to sleep at 7pm. That honestly seems ridiculously early tome

Aforementioned DD. managed late and night shifts without trouble as an adult and never really complained of tiredness through kids being awake in night so just the was she is

JustABean · 30/05/2026 20:29

Aslong as our twins 2yr and 3yr and 5yr all get plenty of exercise in garden and a good walk there all asleep by 7 till 7-8 in morning...no noise firm from the start this is your bed your room you stay in it and your cup of water now they no there's no negotiations bed means bed while I go do some housework... The only time it got later was on a holiday as routine got a bit put to one side a couple of months ago but soon got back on track once home

YourPoliteTurtle · 30/05/2026 20:32

WHY does he have to go to bed early?
As long as he sleeps enough, and he's not up at 4am, why forcing it? Calm bedtime routine, but not that early that you stress him out.

what time do you actually try to put him in bed to start?

It's hot and bright daylight later and later, it's nicer to be outside around now, 8:30 or 9pm. What time is your bedtime?

YourPoliteTurtle · 30/05/2026 20:34

I would have hated having my kids go to bed at 7pm in the summer, we would have missed all the evenings outside.

It's bad enough to have to keep them in the shade at midday, but giving them early diner and trying early bedtimes mean no time left at all in the afternoon

Ace56 · 30/05/2026 20:34

Agree with pp, there sounds like some kind of neurodiversity here, from your descriptions of pacing around, meltdowns and being unable to sit still.
Have you seen a professional about any of this?

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 30/05/2026 20:35

Put him to bed ten minutes earlier each night until you reach the time you want

jowto · 30/05/2026 20:52

I don’t think I’ve mentioned 7pm, so I’m not really sure why that’s being repeatedly mentioned? I’m OK with 8-830, especially as the evenings are light, but I do think 10 is far too late for a five year old.

What he’s doing ,,, jumping around, hanging upside down off the bed, dicking about with the Tonie box. It is stressful and exhausting.

OP posts:
Happytaytos · 30/05/2026 21:06

What happens if you leave him in the dark?

My 6yo often doesn't go to sleep til 10pm, over the week he rights himself and will have an early night or late morning. As I said, you can't force sleep sorry. You can enforce staying in bed, having a light off, having no toys etc but actual sleep is impossible at that age.

jowto · 30/05/2026 21:10

He jumps around, hangs upside down off the bed, dicks about with the Tonie box.

He is actually asleep now. Halejulah.

OP posts:
Happytaytos · 30/05/2026 21:11

As long as you can chill downstairs, hard as it is, let him.

(says this voice of experience)

Hillarious · 30/05/2026 22:30

So what is the bedtime routine? How do you help him calm down?

mrssunshinexxx · 30/05/2026 22:53

Calm bedtime couple of quiet stories lay and tickle his back stroke his hair whatever he likes for 5-10 mins with the Tonie on quite quietly. Remove the other tonies to stop the messing x

Crispynoodle · 30/05/2026 23:04

Strict routine bath every night PJs and quiet time and completely wear him out during the day

BertieBotts · 30/05/2026 23:50

The thing is, for a significant proportion of children with ADHD (my eldest is one of them, my middle one whose ADHD is much more severe, is not) they can't fall asleep because their body literally doesn't produce the hormone that makes you feel sleepy at the right time. It's called melatonin, we should naturally start to produce it in the evening an hour or two before we need to sleep, but people with delayed sleep cycles produce it about 3-4 hours later instead - which could explain why your son is consistently falling asleep around 9-10pm when most children his age are tired and going to bed at about 7 or 8.

You can buy melatonin as a supplement in chemists in other countries, but in the UK it is only available on prescription. I understand people sometimes buy it online, I don't know what I would do honestly. I live somewhere it can be bought in the local equivalent of Boots so I spoke to my child's doctor, they okayed it and he's been taking it on and off since he was about 9. He's 17 now and still struggles to fall asleep at a normal time, in fact he will go fully nocturnal if he doesn't have to get up for school. When he was 5, I used to sit on his bed and keep reminding him not to move his body or talk/make noises with his mouth as these were the two things which would prevent him actually relaxing into sleep. I know that some children self-soothe with these things (DS3 does) but DS1 did not, it was like they were stimulating him to keep him awake. I did find though that if I told him to close his eyes, that was counterproductive because he would screw them up so tightly that his whole body was in tension, which would not help him fall asleep. But sat on his bed and just slowly counting to 3 if he started to move or make noise would help him go into more of a relaxed, sleepy state and then he would drop off within about 20 minutes, because he was tired. If you want to know how to absolutely optimise everything about sleep possible, there is a very nice book by Lyndsey Hookway called Still Awake, but a book can't solve a problem which is biological in origin.

One complication is that sleep deprivation in itself causes almost identical symptoms to ADHD. But if it's caused by sleep deprivation, and you can manage to fix the sleep deprivation, whether this is via behavioural methods (which don't work if they aren't sleepy because they aren't producing melatonin) or some kind of medical solution, the ADHD-like symptoms will go away. If it's actually ADHD then it doesn't matter how much sleep they get, they will have the same struggles anyway. However because ADHD in itself can be a cause of sleep issues (for various reasons not limited to late melatonin production) you can get stuck in a cycle where you can't fix the sleep. If this is the case then it makes sense just to proceed with the ADHD assessment.

I would speak to your GP. Go with the checklist. Explain about the sleep problems, see if they can suggest anything for that short term.

BertieBotts · 30/05/2026 23:56

Oh, if he will sit to listen to a story - this one is meant to be actual magic. Everyone on MN was raving about it when it came out. The secret is basically that it has little cues in it where you trigger yourself to yawn, which activates the reflex that gets your child to yawn as well. That makes them feel sleepy, supposedly. The rewiews have some pictures and it sounds like some kind of hypnosis!

I have a friend IRL who used it with some success. I never tried it. But the used copies are very cheap and it might be worth a try.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rabbit-Who-Wants-Fall-Asleep/dp/0241255163

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread