AIBU to not pay for something my kid supposedly damaged?

[PopandFizz]

I have a disabled son, hes a small 8 year old with autism and learning disabilities. Cognitive age is around 2 but he doesnt talk. We rented out a sensory room on weds, private rental. They take a £75 bond but the actual hourly hire is £20, we had 90 mins so I paid £30 + the bond.

We had a great time, my son is stimulated by movement and interaction so he was more interested in things he could effect. They had a lot of button triggered features that he really liked plus a glowing ball pool. As such he didnt play with one of the bigger light tube features, but I do know it worked as I turned it on initially, its on a timer (I assumed?!) So we didnt switch it back on again. It is in like a soft play surround but my son wasnt interested, didnt jump on it or similar - though if he had the soft play would suggest that it supports that. I must state he is watched 100% of the time, he has to be. I dont go on my phone and let him run about jumping/climbing etc. I have to be proactive as he is a danger to himself. He did not interact with it.

We were the last session of the day and the owner messaged me that evening to say that this tube has broken and it's going to cost £150 to fix. They were very nice about it but.. how can it be?!

I dont really know what to do. Ive replied explaining im very confused about this because of the reasons above and have asked for a photo which they said they dont have and tube is now in a skip.

So thoughts please
YABU - It must be your son so you should pay, who else could it have been?
YANBU - You shouldn't pay that much when your son didnt go near it, its a business expense.

They are a big name in our local send community but this is my first interaction wirh them. On one hand I think well they are clearly trusted locally and not pulling a fast one but on the other I think who doesnt take a photo of this type of thing.

they have zero proof so can’t charge you anyhow, simple as that

They should insured for things like this.

Don’t pay. But they probably won’t let you back.

Thanks for the replies.

I have gone back to them asking if they have cameras as these will show my son didnt play with the tube and that without photos of the issue I am finding it very hard to understand how my child could be responsible. I would be happy to pay for something they had broken and I understand they dont know us as a family but they are closely supervised so I am confident they havent done anything damaging.

I feel like im going to lose £75 here and will have paid £100 for a 90 minute session! 😫 I can stand firm and say I am not paying more, though she likely wont let us back and I feel like she is going to keep the bond.

Good reply. If they say they have no cameras, say they need to speak to other parents to find out who broke it as it wasn't your ds. Ask for your deposit back

I agree with everyone else - but wanted to say how much effort this must be for you. It sounds like you can never switch off. By age 8 most children can be lightly supervised. Sorry you have the additional stress of this on top of never getting a moment to relax.

If it's being heavily used by lots of kids, then it's surely wear and tear? Everything will break down eventually. I'd think that was a business expense.

If you really want to go back and have no other option, then you might have to consider paying. If you don't care if they won't have you back, then insist on the evidence.

His cognitive age etc is irrelevant. You break it, you pay.

Thanks, it is really difficult and its hard to get people whose kids aren't in a similar situation to understand. I have to have a camera on them just to go for a wee or make a cup of tea!

I know some parents let their kids run riot and some autistic children can be heavy handed with play equipment - mine included. But if it IS checked after every session and it did break after ours, then it must have been almost broken and anyone playing in the vicinity would have broken it.

Unless they can show you proof that your son or you damaged the tube then no, I would not accept liability.

A light stopped working and they didn't take a photo of the damage that caused it to stop working? Jog on.

You'll probably need to go to a small claim to get your deposit back, or at least threaten to.

Its very easily done online for a debt that small.

I had similar with my son was accused of breaking something in a private nursery sensory room.
I asked if anyone had seen it happen? No they hadn't.
I told them tthey obviously weren't supervising the three kids in the room when it happened and they should claim on their accidental damage insurance as I wasn't paying.
I took him out of the nursery and never heard any more on the subject.

but what if you don’t actually break it and are being accused of breaking it?

How can OP prove she didn’t?

She can’t. She turned it on, it stopped working and she just assumed it was on a timer.

How can the owner prove she did?

If you turn something on and it breaks there’s clearly a fault with the tube. Which is on the owner to replace. It’s not like she stood there hitting it to cause damage

If they haven't provided any evidence, then you should not be liable. It's just too convenient....
They should be checking it after every session but this should be with you there! Otherwise they just have to suck damage up!
Just state that you're child didn't play with it, they haven't provided any evidence, so not your responsibility to cover the cost and please return the bond.
FWIW slightly different but a few years ago someone tried to charge us a huge amount to clean the holiday let we had left, claiming we'd left all sorts of mess. However we'd not even used some of the items they complained about and the accumulated dust under beds was a long term issue not a family over a week. Somethings were just petty, like fingerprints on a window. They didn't provide any photos and once we pushed back, we never heard from them again!i

I mention cognitive age to give an idea of the level of disability and hence the necessity of my 'helicopter parent' and them being completely supervised.

We didnt do anything TO the tube so I dont understand how it could have broken due to us. This is what I am trying to find out.
If you sit down to play and a toy next to you breaks even if you are the closest, is that your fault?

Why would OP even want to go back to somewhere that is accusing her child without evidence of breaking something? Not being allowed back is hardly a punishment.

Some ND kids need a bit more than 'light supervision' at 8. Mine certainly did and noone was supervising him or two others in the sensory room at the time the damage occured to equipment.

To be honest I am just nervous this woman branding me a liar or slamming me on social media or something and me being ousted from the full local send community. She works for our local parent carers forum, she runs this sensory room and various send groups.

We've all seen people posting messages of bad interactions with customers - i have not been rude at all but I dont want any conflict or similar.

But equally I dont want to pay £100+ for a 90 minute session. The £30 was already a big expense.
My husband was wary about the deposit too but I said I wasnt worried because I dont take my eyes off them 🙈 that's gone well!

Agree with others that they need to prove to you that you broke it (which it sounds like you didn’t!). But also they need to have insurance to cover the equipment.

also what’s the point of the bond?!

Well the deposit is like a security deposit - so to pay for damages (like this)

To avoid wider repercussions within the community, can you say you don't believe you are liable but offer to forgo the deposit as a way to go halves? No, you shouldn't have to.

It's not up to OP to prove she didn't; it's up to the owner to prove damage and that the damage was done by OP's son.

Turning something on (which is specifically there for you to touch and turn on) does not equate to breaking it. Aiming a karate kick at it or picking it up and throwing it against the wall is breaking it.

@PopandFizz , you sound like you're really stressed and you've been pleasant in your replies to the owner. Do NOT admit liability, as your son did not damage the item. If they truly believe that is what happened, they would claim on their insurance company and the insurance company may then approach you to recover costs. Of course to do so, they'd need to supply evidence (which it sounds like the company doesn't have). If the company try to retain your deposit, look up template letters on the Citizens Advice website and advise that if they don't return the deposit, you will have no choice but to bring a claim in small claims court (for the value of the deposit, plus court costs and interest). If they still don't return it, actually bring the claim.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/small-claims/making-a-small-claim/

It's a straight forward process and not as intimidating as it may seem. An old boss brought several claims and simply had to fill out a form describing the issue, the resolution and attach any evidence (receipts etc). I've looked it up and it seems the process is similar, you just submit the form online now. You don't have to actually attend a court or worry about a solicitor or representing yourself; it's literally just filling out a form and paying the court fee.

She doesn't have to prove anything. The burden of proof rests entirely on the person making the accusation.

Indeed.

But there are a limited number of places with these kids of facilities and OP may have limited options.