AIBU to feel uneasy about a segregated by sex youth club?

[Scottishmamaagain]

A local community group which is primarily ran by members of the Muslim community but is open to everyone and benefits the whole community has started a a weekly Youth Club for teens. Great I thought there isn’t enough stuff for teenagers etc. I have just seen a post promoting it on a community area page on Facebook, and it’s segregated into a boys group and a girls group at different times, with different activities. For the first week the boys is football followed by World Cup fantasy stuff, whereas the girls is a reading group. It just makes me cringe a bit a feel uncomfortable, is such classic stereotypes, there’s loads of girls into football around here and I assume lots of boys who also read. I don’t understand why it needs to segregated into the first place.

Don’t want to drip feed, but this group has had quite a hard time lately from the local stop the boats brigade, but I’ve always stood up for them on comments on social media. They have kept a local community centre open and events they have helped organised have benefited our struggling town centre. But something about this segregated youth group makes me feel uncomfortable.

AIBU - it’s just a youth group, no one has to go and it doesn’t make a difference if it’s segregated
AINBU - there is no need to segregate this and it’s wrong to fall into stereotypes

Nothing wrong with segregating by sex. The activities may be stereotypical, but realistically, football playing is going to be more appealing to boys than teen girls, plus they wouldn't play together at this age anyway. Reading group is a strange choice, it's much more of a middle age /OAP appropriate activity. But if they had enough interest, fair enough.

So we want same sex spaces

Unless they’re run by Muslims?

Just say you don't like Muslims. That's what this post is but trussied up in a equal rights stance so as not to draw attention to the fact you have a problem with the Muslims.

Is someone who has been a youth club leader in both mixed sex youth clubs and in guides and brownies, I can tell you which nights ran smoother. But congrats on all the reform councillors getting in.

Well we do have single sex schools and that’s ok?

But brownies and guides are just for girls and I think that's fine. It's good for both sexes to have single sex spaces. Now based on one week of activities I can't say if they're stereotyped, maybe the girls did whittling and fire building last week. If they didn't the issue is with stereotypical activities not sex based spaces.

I think single sex youth clubs are a great idea honestly whoever is running them.

but obviously they should provide lots of different activities that appeal to all whether it be reading, sport, baking etc . Both sexes can do all these things and they should all be able to give them a go.

I volunteer at a youth group and at my local equivalent programme to girlguiding.

From about the age of 12/13, it becomes crucial for us to organise segregated activities, especially physical or reflective ones (football, reading…). We very often have mixed evenings too, but I see how important it is for girls that age to have their own safe space, where they can have fun without being teased by the boys, and open up to us in a way they might not do with their parents, on certain topics.

I was embarrassed as a 14yo to talk to my mum about my crushes sometimes, but I loved going to youth group and giggling with my friends and our “older sisters” about the boys I liked… I don’t see anything wrong with it per se.

I much preferred mixed groups to single sex. My brother hated boys group clubs as they were always football and he couldn’t stand it - I’d have loved a football club. Things like rounders and softball were great as even the non-sporty kids would have a go as there was a big chunk of just sitting on the sides and chatting. There’s room for everything if there’s an audience. Why don’t you help set up something in addition to this?

One of the reasons Girl Guiding remained single sex when the Scouts went mixed is that there are girls who would not be able to take part if it was mixed. Which is a good enough reason IMHO.

Can you get in contact and suggest that they offer the same opportunities in the girls group? It genuinely may not have occurred to them.

PS one of the (mixed) groups I lead was given a list of additional badges and awards they could do over the holidays. It was only the boys who completed the ironing, laundry and baking badges. They’ve been so keen on learning more about domestic tasks, we plan on running a cooking class over the summer for them. Both boys and girls did a jam-making workshop earlier in the year. We do a lot of sex-based activities but they also have the chance to try the same things together.

I like the idea of single sex activities and clubs. I do think both sexes should read and play football though.

I’m amazed those badges exist- they must have been reintroduced!

Nothing wrong with segregated by sex groups in general. I suppose this one has (rightly or wrongly)the added element of religion to it.

As for the activities, if run by volunteers (particularly if the volunteers also have to match the sex), I suppose they went for whatever their interests are/feel comfortable doing. You could always volunteer to run an extra session for the girls to play football or another sporty activity?

Youth worker here. I don’t think single sex spaces are bad, especially when it’s an optional activity provided in the community. It also makes complete sense for their religious beliefs.
The stereotypical activities aren’t great and I would encourage groups like that to be child-led, providing activities the young people have asked for. However, since you’re not involved with running the group you don’t know this hasn’t happened already. It may also be that they think this will entice people in so they can then find out what activities they should offer as the group develops. I hope they will offer a range of activities eventually, sometimes these things take time to grow!
The youth clubs I work in are open to all but split for ages. I have to say, there are often more girls playing football in the younger session and more boys playing games like uno, imposter, etc. There are also often boys colouring in. With the seniors it’s much more mixed with both enjoying basketball and pool. We play card/board games and enjoy a crafty activity. Our ‘kitchen helpers’ are varied, it’s a voluntary position that involves preparing snacks and doing the dishes but lots of the teenage boys take a turn. I think the key is having options available so that they can choose. I remember one day watching a typical 15-year-old lad take a break from basketball to do some colouring in! He was concentrating so hard, he was making little noises - it was lovely to see that side to him but he wouldn’t have asked for it, it was something he did because the option was there.
i strongly recommend getting involved with a youth group if you think you can offer something more suitable. It is so rewarding and provides such a vital life line for many kids. I think mixed spaces are great but there’s a place for single sex spaces too.

Or two youth clubs? One for boys and one for girls?
Presumably there's nothing to stop someone else setting up a mixed youth club if they want.
I can't see the problem, except possibly that they seem to be proposing such different activities for boys and girls. But maybe they'd provide a girls' football club if someone was willing to run it? If it's mainly run by Muslims, maybe they don't have a female leader with football coaching skills?

My DF goes to a men's shed. It's a community shed for men to do mostly wood/metal work. It's really just for older men to socialise and build things. It keeps DF busy & gives him a reason to go out (he's 84).

We have a women's shed too, which is mostly older women doing sewing and craft.

Stereotypical, but they choose to go and I think enjoy the single sex spaces.

As a mum of a teen and being around teens, I think sometimes they do appreciate being split off into sex groups. Sometimes my dd gets annoyed when some things are mixed, especially sports, as the boys tend to be too aggressive. However I also know some girls are really into sports and can match the “boys energy levels”.

I think the issue is making sure that whatever is available for the boys, the girls can do. But not every kid is into football. My dd is very sporty, but not a fan of football. So I wonder if they asked the girls what they want.

I guess the mention of them being Muslim is relevant as culturally they tend to split men and women in adulthood. I do sometimes wonder if you are not happy with the way they do things, you could find other groups? Or find ambitious people that want to start one?

I don't think there's anything wrong with a single-sex youth group. The activities are probably based on what the volunteers can offer. Maybe they don't have any women on the volunteer team who feel confident to coach football.

Also, maybe the girls in the group wanted a book club - the YA genre is very popular with girls. Teenage boys and girls tend to have different interests so I think it would be unrealistic to expect the activities to always be the same. Some activities like crafts, dance, yoga, pilates, Zumba etc are much more popular with women than men. Maybe not offering a pottery painting session or Zumba class to teenage boys is "stereotyping" but realistically probably few boys would choose to attend.

I think i would just be grateful that they are doing another thing for the community and say thank you.

To make it clear there are already a few single sex youth groups up here for teens, guides and girls brigade for girls and boys brigade for boys. Like Scouts and cadet forces I think a lot of the teens still involved in these sorts of groups into their teen years are the ones who are into their extra curricular activities etc and aren’t the ones I was thinking a casual youth club might try to target. I grew up in a different area but youth clubs were meant to get kids off the streets, they weren’t generally targeting the kids already heavily involved in clubs/sports.

As for the boys football, I think the idea of this is a casual kick about, there’s quite a few serious clubs in the area which a lot of kids get put off by, so think this is a good idea just to kids out moving, I don’t think there will be a lot of serious coaching going on etc so don’t see why it couldn’t have been extended to girls. I also think the rounders idea on here would be perfect. Maybe it would have been a better idea for them to put on a sporty session and a non sporty session, even then I still think a reading group is a bit pants.

If there's so many single sex youth groups in your area, why are you uneasy about this one?

There are a couple of similar groups near to me. They choose their activities and girls have done every type of crafting, art classes, reading, netball, yoga .... The boys group chooses football, rugby, gaming, darts ...
All voluntarily run (by an ex colleague of mine and a team of helpers). It's been really good for the local community (not religious based but all kids welcome)

But that's just the first week. There's nothing you've said to suggest that every week the girls must sit and read quietly whilst the boys have to be football mad.

I'd have loved a reading club at that age!

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with it being split by sex - some teenagers will like that, and there’s presumably other things they can do if they want something mixed.

Could you offer to help out and make some suggestions for other activities?