How do I better identify emotionally healthy men and leave unhealthy dynamics earlier?

[ZingyRoseQuail]

How do women actually get better at identifying emotionally healthy men earlier on? And how do you stop yourself staying too long in unhealthy dynamics once you start noticing red flags, inconsistency, emotional instability, mixed signals, avoidance, poor communication, selfishness or emotional unavailability?

Because I think sometimes attraction/chemistry can make women rationalise things they probably wouldn’t objectively advise a friend to tolerate. And honestly, I think many women only realise in hindsight that they were constantly anxious, overthinking, chasing reassurance, self-abandoning or trying to “earn” stability from someone emotionally inconsistent.

So I’m just wondering what signs/patterns have you learned to pay attention to that actually indicate emotional health in a man rather than just attraction/chemistry?

I’d suggest listening to how your body is reacting. By that, I mean paying attention to what’s going on in your body - are you feeling good and safe? Or are you feeling nervous? That can help.

Also, think about the behaviour patterns of the man you’re seeing. Does he listen to you? Does he compromise? Does he take no for an answer? If you can answer yes to all of those, that is a good sign.

Think about how new an acquaintance is and how appropriate it is to behave in certain ways, and also how he speaks about other people that he knows now, or in the past. So somebody who shares very early on how badly he has been treated by an ex for example, is a huge red flag. We get to know a person gradually, and share more of ourselves over time. A person who is stepping outside of this norm is likely doing it to create an artificial sense of closeness, which shouldn't be trusted.

I have a hugely developed sense of who I regard as a decent human and who will work for me, I had it even as a kid when choosing friends at school. Some people have a soft, kind look in their eyes. They care, they take things seriously and they always do as they say. They are not slick, arrogant, charming or loud. Some people might class them as boring but they are usually quite interesting once you get talking.
They don’t score points by making someone else in the group look stupid or feel uncomfortable. A decent man doesn’t pressure you for sex or to always do what he wants. He is highly unlikely to have a child he never sees.
For me illegal drugs would always be an absolute no as well.

The answer is if he starts behaving like an arse before you are in a committed relationship then run. If you have doubts voice them, if he promises to be better and isn't run.

Great suggestions above. On top of that, I suggest meeting their friends as soon as realistic, in a casual setting. See how they behave when around others, and how their friends behave towards them. You can judge a person by the company they keep. DH's friends are a very varied bunch, but all consistently decent people, who genuinely spoke highly of him, and were kind and respectful towards me, their girlfriends all had only positive things to say about DH.
Whereas a previous boyfriend, who turned about to be a nasty piece of work, his friends said things about him, and then 'only joking' with a little laugh. He acted completely different with them, felt like a bit of a chameleon

This makes me think of the classic advice from Samantha Jones on SATC:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBnKeeFPx9g&pp=ygUpU2FtYW50aGEgc2F0YyBzaWduIG9mIGEgZ29vZCByZWxhdGlvbnNoaXA%3D&ra=m

You have to like yourself and have an expectation that you will be treated with respect. Whether that’s men, female friends, family, colleagues or strangers. Anything less, you don’t accept. If it’s from a man, walk away.

A man who cares about you may get it wrong sometimes, especially at the beginning of a relationship, but he’ll be invested in making it right and he’ll show vulnerability and won’t make you feel bad. Any sense of blame, arrogance, manipulation, violence or belittling etc just tell them to jog on.

How does he react when people are rude to him?
How does he react when YOU are rude to him?
How do he react when you are ill?
How does he react when you refuse sex, particularly if things are getting that way and he's excited, then you refuse.

I genuinely would recommend women testing men with these things.
My ex would have failed every one. My DH is a bloody wonderful man and these are things that show a stark difference in them.

Ooh and how does he react when embarrassed?
How much food does he eat when you're sharing?
How does he react when you air a concern?
Mention a Mumsnet story, particularly one whose husband is an arsehole but not too obvious, like he didn't fuck his coworker or rape her, like he doesn't pull his weight in the house despite her being a SAHM. What's his opinion of their situation? What's his opinion of Mumsnet. My ex hated Mumsnet, because he hated women for starters and because he hated the idea of women helping eachother see through men's lies. Mumsnet isn't good for those types of men.

I’d not seen that before - thanks for posting! It’s similar to this advice here, which I saw recently and which resonated with me: https://youtube.com/shorts/T4crYdFUx4?si=r1eROTXy7Yq8-79R.

ETA: it’s a video by Andrea Rendl, a German comedian who does a lot of content around mental health - particularly around relationships and self-acceptance.

Join the fb page burn the haystack dating method. You will learn a lot.

@ZingyRoseQuail before I met my DH 26 years ago, I only dated for 6 months at a time. By that time the novelty of that person had worn off and usually something about them gave me the ick. By 6 months I would make the decision, could I see myself with this person the rest of my life. Until my DH it was always a no, so I gave the heave-ho!

That’s my advice. Give a max 6 month time period. Assess honestly. And don’t waste your time on anyone that isn’t the ‘one!’.

I met my husband when I was 17 and married at 18, been married 36 years now. I don't claim any great expertise but these are the things I noticed about him -

He is kind and treats everyone with respect. He made an effort with my family and friends - because they are important to me. He is especially kind to my elderly mum and will often pop in to see her for a cuppa and a chat. He gets on well with everyone, doesn't judge people.

He is intelligent and works hard and has been successful in his career but he's modest and never blows his own trumpet.

He is easygoing, good company, still makes me laugh a lot after all these years. He's never jealous or controlling, happy for me to see friends, go out, have hobbies etc

He's a great dad and loves spending time with our adult sons. He's a bit of a homebody, likes pottering in the garden, has had to work away a lot over the years but is happiest at home.

He has friendships that have endured for decades, he's loyal and will go out of his way to help people, including our elderly neighbours.

A good relationship shouldn't be hard work, your partner should be the one who supports you, cares for you, picks you up when you're down. If it starts feeling like hard work early on, he's definitely not the one for you!

I’m going to guess you’re anxiously attached?

The short answer is to get therapy because “listen to your body” or “how do you feel?” won’t be useful for you because your entire emotional system is all over the place. I say that as someone who is prone to anxious attachment and thinking love bombing is normal as the guy is OBV my soul mate. Emotionally volatile people felt very stable and safe to me…because I was used to people being volatile IYSWIM. Your body will gravitate to the familiar, but what’s familiar to you likely is anything but safe

Burn the haystack .

Block delete move on.

Don't accept anything except feeling comfortable and being able to assert and maintain your boundaries.

Also - therapy does help to work out what your boundaries are. If therapy isn't affordable rn lots of journalling reflecting reading you tube etc.

I don't think its spotting the signs. Because that's easy. It's anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, let down, belittled, smothered, judged, controlled, nervous, or any other negative thing.
Its having the confidence to trust your feelings and believe in your right to act upon them, and the courage to do it.
Women don't usually end up in bad relationships because they didn't notice red flags. It tends to be more that they talk themselves out of them being deal breakers. Because he's lovely otherwise. Or because you can't be too choosy and no one's perfect. Or because it was probably a one off. Or because you did something to cause it and you won't do that again. Or because he's better than your ex...
If you find yourself thinking any of these things as reasons to continue a relationship, end it.

I would also recommend letting friends know about things that happen early doors so if one of them raises an eyebrow at an anecdote, take heed!

I have found this a really interesting read.

I think the one which really resonated with me is the one about knowing your worth. And if you are feeling you don't deserve the best, then take a break from relationships and work on building yourself up.

Think about relationships around you which you think are great, what makes them work. And ones which aren't, giving you things to avoid. I had an excellent role model in my Dad, who was super involved, way ahead of his time in many ways, and a true partner to my mum. I knew to not settle for anyone who wasn't a true partner, a best friend. I think I idolised him a bit as a child, but he was very conscious to build my mum up, to only ever say positive things about her and to her in front of us.

I was going to recommend that too!

This is really good advice.

This. I once dumped someone for standing me up on my birthday and going off on the lash with his mates instead. I didn’t hesitate in doing it. Some of my friends at the time thought I was overreacting but I’ve never had any regrets about it.

I would also agree therapy, if you had or witnessed tricky relationships with family then you will be naturally drawn to those types of relationships and that cycle will be really hard to break.

It's also really hard for people to explain their caution...for me, love bombing would really freak me out, I'd think 'you can't feel like that, you don't really know me'...but I'd think like that even if it was genuine.

It's also not clear on your post if you want help spotting these behaviours or leaving once you know these are behavioural trait.

If spotting these behaviours -

• is he fair - does he treat you in a way that he would be happy to be treated. If someone blows up your phone when you don't answer but goes awol when you message him, then he isn't a good person
• consistency - does he act the same when he is stressed / tired, with different groups of friends, when you've had an argument. How someone acts when something shit has happened, even minor (someone cutting them up in traffic) can show a lot about them. If someone aways blows hot and cold that's a sign they are manipulative in my opinion and I'd run (however brain chemistry is often wired so that you 'try harder' to make them like you again so watch out for this)
• do their actions match their words. Are they telling you they'd do anything for you while leaching off you. Are they telling you that you're the only one for them whilst still being on dating sites etc. Watch what they do not just what they say
• how does he respond to criticism. It's normal to feel a bit upset but does he take on board what you're saying and try and change his approach
• how does he argue. Its possible to have different opinions and debate or explain why someone is wrong without shouting, insulting, flouncing or sulking. Does your point of view get dismissed or listened to and questioned
• how kind is someone. Not just to you but to others. The little things like avoiding a puddle when driving past someone. Helping someone with a buggy down the stairs. Making sure you don't use the last of something without replacing it so that it doesn't inconvenience the next person.
• how does he act when things go wrong. Eg you are supposed to meet him or help him with something and have a migraine. Does he bang on about how disappointed he is / suggest you should make it up to him / moan about the inconvenience. Or does he say don't worry you can't help it and offer to come round and bring you food.

Boundaries. HARD boundaries. For example if someone stands me up (not the same as rearranging respectifully in advance) within the first 3 months I ditch them immediately, no excuses accepted. After 3 months I will accept last minute cancellations for sickness / emergencies, maybe, if I am 100% confident I believe them. This possibly means I lose 1 good man but it certainly means I lose the messer abouters!
I once ditched a guy because he wanted to meet in the car park before our first date instead of inside the pub. He was annoyed at my suggesting something I felt was safer for me which is a big red flag.
I dump guys for rudeness to waiters, being late, love bombing, feeling disinterested, etc.. I have recently married a guy I found internet dating (we've been in a relationship for 3.5 yrs so not flash in the pan!) but I threw a LOT of stinky fish back very quickly before I settled on him!

Lots of good advice here. I agree with @DrinkFeckArseBrick's list and @TreeDudette's boundaries. Have standards and immediately ditch men who don't live up to them. Being late more than once; being stood up; rude to waiters; trying to persuade you to neglect important aspects of your life to be with them. Immediately drop these men.

I'd add: is their kindness performative or unobtrusive? Some real snakes will put on a great show of being incredibly nice to waiters/dogs/small children, raising money for charity or undertaking grand gestures to help you in a crisis. Really good men do these things without broadcasting how fantastic they are and expecting you to do the same.

Most important: does he give you space to be who you want to be? The snakes will try to persuade you call in sick at work/ditch your fitness regime just to mooch around with them. A good man respects your career, your health. He understands you have a life beyond the relationship and you're not on call 24/7.

How does he talk about others? Is he bitter about exes, colleagues, bosses (especially female bosses). Is he dismissive or sneering about his mum, his siblings etc. Emotionally grown-up men can process their negative emotions and be rational about their own shortcomings.

He sounds gorgeous.

I love men like this. They are often overlooked but they are the best partners ever. How lucky to have met him so early in life.