To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

[ForGreyStork]

It’s the way benefits are talked about. To me, they’re part of a social security system -a safety net that people may need at different points in life, rather than “gifts” or handouts.
I also wonder whether increasing conditions and restrictions risk undermining that safety net over time.

AIBU?

Oh I was once told I could be an unpaid carer during the day and pick up paid work during the night. 🤣

Yes, because that is readily available 🙄

Ha! I can tell you that from personal experience! "Oh, you're autistic? What does that mean?" Then silence on the subject forever more.

It's also the fact that the carer would obviously have to be paid. There's no way I'd be able to earn enough for that. 😂

If you were paid enough to live to look after your own disabled child, then people would be in uproar... yet they are still in uproar for you getting paid a pittance to do the same.

Just to point out that not everyone on NMW gets UC. People seem to think they do

Yep. If you are a single person with no caring responsibilities, no kids, or no disabilites.. you are literally told to earn more and do more hours... even if you can't pay your rent.

Pay, NI, pension contributions, sick pay, holiday pay, maternity/paternity leave... It's almost like people think they've come up with a perfect solution without ever wondering why people aren't already doing that very thing!

I have a friend who had a stroke in her 30's, and is brain damaged
... cant write, read, add, subtract and walks with a bad lump ... formerly ran a business. She will never work again. Do you think she should receive below minimum wage?

But of course! 💡The readily available, plentiful, not-at-all-sold-off-to-private-owners, council housing! Why didn’t I think of that?! 😂

Next time you’re stuck for reading matter, might I suggest you try and dig out a tome or two about the Thatcher years? Then you might glean a smattering of insight as to why this country is in the state it’s in.

Good luck doing that in a lot of jobs. I’d get laughed at if I tried to negotiate higher pay with my employer. They pay what they pay for people doing my role across the business, no room for negotiating. If I don’t like it, I have the option of leaving to do the role elsewhere, probably taking less pay as my employer actually pays slightly above what most other employers pay for what I do, and they’ll just get someone else in to fill my position no bother.

I was a hospital porter. I am not sure how I could have up and left and did the same job for more money elsewhere.

Yes but most people on mumsnet don’t realise that they’re probably closer to being on benefits or homeless than they are to being a millionaire. I have been both and it taught me that your life can literally go to shit within a matter of minutes if not seconds.

I work for a council. Every year the union ballots for strike action over our pitiful pay offer and we eventually get it back paid around November time because it takes some time to agree. Great for budgeting for Christmas! Except anyone who claims UC to top up their massive public sector pay just loses the entire back payment in one go.
I should have thought about just asking the council to pay me more. Why didn't I?

Exactly and roles like those are very much needed to help keep the place running smoothly. Nobody’s expecting a lavish lifestyle on NMW, but people deserve to be able to live comfortably doing those kinds of jobs. They’re important and usually physically (and often mentally) demanding.

I did use to have a decent life on that wage. Lived alone in a flat with a garden. Had plenty for a social life. I was on about £50 per day. This was in Bristol.
The cost of living has meant no one can do the same now. My old quarterly electricity bill is what I pay monthly now.

But yep, anyone in those jobs now deserves to have a life too. Not work themselves to the bone just to have the absolute bare essentials.

NRTFT.
There is a definite resentment for people who live on benefits, like they should be suffering in some way, and if they are suffering then they are also deserving of support.
Are they disabled? Ok, they're deserving.
Are they eligible for disability benefits but not obviously disabled? They're not so deserving.
Are they old? They're deserving.
Are they unemployed? They're not really deserving and should be grateful for anything.

For the type of people who no doubt have been mentioned already, you know, the unemployed layabouts who cba, the answer is to get to the root of the problem, which is why don't they want to work?
The UK has tried the carrot approach without much luck for the diehard unemployed and currently they use the stick approach, threatening sanctions etc if no job is found, but has anyone taken the time to find out why they dont work?
And before posters cry out that they're just lazy and cba, I ask you to think about this for a moment.
Those same people aren't too lazy to spend their time doing things they enjoy doing. They don't have a problem getting up and out of the house if they think it's worth their time, so are they really lazy?
Or is it something about working that they have an issue with?
Something about preferring to live in poverty than going to work suggests that working is mostly shit. Long hours, low pay, shit managers etc, or they lack support to work at a career they find fulfilling.
I suspect the majority fall into the first category though, and by the way people describe their experience of work, I can see that these unemployed layabouts might have a point and maybe they feel they can survive living in poverty.
Isn't the long term answer to make the act of working more attractive?
That doesnt necessarily mean high wages, it can be as simple as feeling like your job give a shit about you, that you are valued, part of a team.
I find it very difficult to believe that there are thousands and thousands of people who, when offered work where they would feel valued and were paid enough to live on, would prefer to count every penny and go without many basics, have no structure in their life, whilst freezing half to death while chowing down on cold beans.
There must be something drastically wrong with the jobs available if you would prefer to live that way.
Maybe start there?

Exactly.

I wonder whether the people who are always complaining about benefit claimants realise that they could be made redundant tomorrow or suddenly develop a long term health condition which leave them unable to work or that their partner could leave them and expect them to take care of the kids on their own...

Then we would see how quickly they would change their tune and how glad they would be able to receive financial support.

I always think that the benefit bashers are the type who have never had to face any hardship in their lives or come from a place of privilege and somehow have convinced themselves that they are smarter and more 'hard working' than anyone else. They would not survive a month on minimum wage either.

I am in no way privileged, nor am I ignorant to how quickly things can change. But, an alternative view is, we, through extensive experience, see exactly how much the people who really need it are NOT getting and how much the people who are playing the system get but don’t actually need. THAT is the reality, sad as it is.

How do you tell the difference?

Surely this is a given? I receive no benefits but if I couldn’t afford life I’d do more hours. That’s as a parent.

Tell me, how do you?

If you are on a low wage, even more hours can not be enough to live on.

I am not the DWP.