To see benefits as a safety net, not handouts?

[ForGreyStork]

It’s the way benefits are talked about. To me, they’re part of a social security system -a safety net that people may need at different points in life, rather than “gifts” or handouts.
I also wonder whether increasing conditions and restrictions risk undermining that safety net over time.

AIBU?

Depends on context doesn't it, through my work I see families of 3rd/4th generation benefit claimants all of whom have never worked despite various interventions and support. I don't think that can be called a safety net. I also think it's really sad for children growing up not to want more from life because they've never seen anything different.
I do think we need a welfare system for those in need.

You aren’t unreasonable. Benefits are there for people that need it for a time but not for ever. They are there to help until you can find something else.

I think you're right but. And there's always a but. There are some people who go on benefits and expect to stay on them as a lifestyle choice which wasn't the original intention.

YABU universal credit is there to give people on minimum wage a handout and to encourage them to do the minimum wage jobs. It's not just a safety net for people who have fallen on hard times.

I had to go on universal credit when my marriage ended as I was self employed and my daughter has really bad school anxiety and had to keep being collected from school and eventually was home schooled which wrecked my income.

Because she was registered disabled they removed my work requirements and I could have not worked at all, but I could see that that was a terrible path to take as eventually she’d age of out the UC allowance and I would be left with nothing.

So instead I pivoted my career, did a training course at weekends to help me change direction and then got a work from home job that I love that pays all our bills.

It took me 2.5 years but I’m finally off UC and standing on my own two feet (and my ex has withdrawn my maintenance as well so thank god for that)

So I would say they were an incredible safety net for me and that initial layout has given my and my DD a much brighter future.

I cannot imagine how disempowering and life limiting it must feel like to live off them forever.

It’s all got out of hand, and needs reform.

Well some will need them.forever
My son is severly autistic , he 16 and in a special school for children with severe and profound learning disabillities
He cant talk at all he wont ever be able to work.

@inmyhair thats actually not the basic principle of the introduction of welfare state and should not be what benefits are for

they should be below minimum wage and short term. So working should always pay more. None of this choosing 16 hours and expecting state to top you up. None of the keep having children you can’t afford and expect more child benefits, housing eyc

total overhaul needed and back to basic principle of if you want something go work for it

Some need to be 'for life' (at least until retirement state pension), unless you can make my recently acquired (literally overnight) disability & health condition fuck off, then I'll gladly go back to work as I have for the previous 40 years.

Both dh and I have worked full time since, me aged 16, dh aged 15. However, in my late 50s and dhs early 60s he became very unwell and had to give up work. I had no choice but to give up my job to care for him full time. He receives PIP and ESA Contributions based Support Group and I receive Carer's Allowance. We have paid into the system nearly all of our working lives, as have our parents, grandparents, siblings etc. I feel not one bit of guilt about claiming these sickness benefits, I paid NI knowing a portion of it was being used to help those in need, never thinking that one day it would be us. No one knows what the future holds and people should remember that before they criticise people claiming benefits.

I agree with this. There should never be a time when not working is more profitable than working. The benefit system is to help subsistence, not pay for holidays, the latest phone etc. This does not apply to disability benefits.

It may be an unpopular view. There are many parts of today's society that were set up with a purpose originally that has been abused and bent out of shape, adapted, and abused again, and is now so far removed from its original intention that it is almost unrecognisable. Many things need total overhaul, but no government is likely to do anything but tinker as total overhaul is a multi term thing.

I was super grateful for the safety net when I needed it, as a young mum who ended up single through no fault of my own. I claimed housing benefit and top up benefits, worked part time while doing an access course, then a degree and am now a higher rate tax payer so hope I am paying it back in.

People keep quoting this statistic about so many families where 3 or 4 generations have never worked. Research by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation showed that such families were in fact extremely rare. Now that research dates back to 2012, but given the nature of time and generations passing, it it not possible for there to suddenly be an explosion over a period of 14 years. So while there may be a concentration of deprivation in your area, you can't extrapolate from this to the entire country, and it is stigmatising to do so. Do better if you really do work with deprived familes; your judgemental attitude will not help them.

The benefit system we have now is a direct result of decades of a low wage economy (topped up by uc) and destruction of the council house system.

If you’re better off on uc (with rent paid) rather than working for less than peanuts in a soul destroying job why wouldn’t you?

Universal Credit is there to give businesses a handout and keep wages artificially low so they can make more profit.

There, fixed it for you.

Those NMW jobs are essential and need doing. So what are you going to do about that?

I remember during lockdown when my DDs were on their computers doing lessons. A teacher asked ‘how do we get money’. One kid piped up ‘the government gives it to us’. Poor bloody kid, no hope.

Not everyone needs benefits, child support, pension, winter fuel allowance etc but until it's all means tested which will never happen then the benefits bill will always be huge.

Unfortunately there are more part time jobs than full time ones . In certain parts of the country rents are so high that people have to claim benefits to make ends meet . So I would say benefits are more of a safety net than a handout .

Exactly. Except I live alone & thus have no one to get a carers benefit or 'split' the bills with. I can reassure @millymollymoomoo it's definitely a poverty level existence, & if I could go back to work I bloody would.

some people need to realise that not being disabled today, doesn't mean you won't be tomorrow.

It’s the way benefits are talked about.
What way?
By whom?

To me, they’re part of a social security system -a safety net that people may need at different points in life, rather than “gifts” or handouts.
Who is calling them gifts or handouts?

I also wonder whether increasing conditions and restrictions risk undermining that safety net over time
What increasing conditions and restrictions?

Super goady first post by OP.

Why do we need to 'encourage people to do minimum wage jobs'? Surely the objective is to encourage people to progress beyond minimum wage so that they stop relying on benefits whilst leaving the minimum wage jobs for young people or others starting at the bottom of the ladder?

Similar to @x2boys my adult son can’t walk or talk, fed through a tube, has oxygen and daily seizures. He lacks capacity but I’m hoping will outlive me. He still lives at home with us (husband is his full time carer while I work). Are you saying he shouldn’t be on benefits all of his life, because I have no idea how we’d support him otherwise?

They were supposed to be safety nets but in some cases, have become handouts.

The fact that for means-tested ones you can have several thousand pounds in savings means they're no longer a safety net.

For non-means tested ones, they can be hand-outs as you can be a millionaire and claim them.

This is the crux of the matter. Fir 'in work' benefits it's the businesses benefitting, not the claimants.

To answer the original question - yes and no! For people with a life long disability which determines they will never be able to work, we should throw as much time and money behind them as possible.

For everyone else it should absolutely be a short term, catch you if you fall scenario. Choosing a life on benefits should not be feasible. Council houses should be temporary too (except for those with life-long conditions). It really pisses me off that we have people choosing (and on mumsnet, encouraged to choose) a council house instead of a private let. That's not what they should be for.