AIBU to just let my DD crack on?

[ASundayWellSpent]

I'm struggling with DD11 (nearly 12) so much at the moment and today I just want to give up. She has been lovingly and caringly brought up her whole life, stable childhood with both parents supportive, younger sister who is a breeze and idolises her sister, close grandparents, great school with small class sizes. Ironically I work with children including teens and am closely linked to wellbeing, but I guess its different when it is your own and in the home environment. She has gone through a few different phases of being more difficult/ needing more support, strategies etc, notably at 2, 8 and now again at 11. She was screened as part of a research study when she was 10 for any underlying needs / emotional wellbeing etc and it showed slightly high indicators for anxiety but nothing more. She visited a psychologist for a few sessions last summer (and will be going again starting next week) and they discussed her worries and preocupations with friendship groups but the feedback was generally very positive and no further sessions were recommended at that time. I still have my suspisions that she might be neurodiverse and is masking/ high-functioning due to the high levels of support from home and school.

For the past year since she started Secondary we just seem to be in a constant cycle of her pushing boundaries, making poor choices and putting her attention/ focus / energy into superficial things and not engaging with what is important. She is becoming increasingly defiant and argumentative (feels like every 5 minutes), mainly with me but also with father, sister and even on occasion grandparents. I have explained til I am blue in the face that I would like nothing better than to give her more freedom and let her make her own choices but everytime she is given the opportunity poor choices are made and I have to go back to scaffolding and support which I believe she resents.

After a particularly difficult week I am at my wits end. I have just spent half an hour journalling writing "do what you want, just leave me alone" again and again as it is the only way I can see out right now through my stress fog.

Would it be so terrible for me to make good on the list that I have just written and let natural consequences have their effect, in an attempt to protect my mental health and have at least a break in the constant arguing?

List: Wear what you want, use your computer when you want, wash when you want, leave your stuff where you want, tidy your room when you want, empty your bathrooom bin when you want, study when you want, manage your school stuff however you want, go to sports when you want, give up piano when you want, opt out of family outings when you want, eat whatever/ whenever you want, manage your hygiene how you want, just please give me a break and make the arguing stop before I have a break down?

This was exactly what I thought. Pick a few absolute non-negotiable (with her input?) and drop tidy bedroom etc.

I have had to remember with my DS (now 14 - has also had difficulties and at times required a lot of parenting) that, even though I think he needs reminding of things, it can easily come across to him that I'm constantly asking him to do things and that I don't think he's capable of remembering - anyone would find that annoying! I think when they hit secondary they do need to take on some control over their lives. A couple of school sanctions on late homework etc isn't going to do much harm and may save you endless battles.

A lot of your frustration resonates with me as the parent of an 11yo boy. That "do whatever you want list" at the end is very familiar and I've had most of those exact thoughts when feeling especially pissed off😁

It's so tiring having to constantly remind and cajole. I feel like I spend half my life trying to get my kid to do the most basic things. I try to get him to assume responsibility by him writing lists, putting reminders in his wall calendar etc but it all gets forgotten.

Is your daughter someone who feels and shows resistance when being directly told what to do? Would a different approach be helpful? For example, a limited choice about when to wash - "Are you going to shower in the evening or in the morning?" and not allowing certain activities until her responsibilities are taken care of?

It's so tiring having to monitor and orchestrate it all though.

I also wonder if a slight reframe of the situation might be appropriate? Meaning trying not to see it as a "problem" with her, but rather an issue with the dynamic that the two of you have? The way each of you behaves or relates towards the other has an effect, rather than her behaviour being the only problematic factor.

At a quick guess up until now she has been able to get what she wants. The problem is now, if you give in, the consequences could be catastrophic. The fact she you're actually contemplating letting her have her own way is probably says it all. Why is she going to a psychologist when she doesn't need to? You need to be even stronger and ensure boundaries are kept.

Nothing to add that's helpful but solidarity. It is exhaustingxx

Sounds like normal teen desire for independence. In the kindest way, maybe you could have some therapy to help with your urges to control her?

It's hard isn't!! I have given my thoughts below. Personally I wouldn't give her a list or anything written - she could easily go wild with it! Feedback on your specifics:
Wear what you want - whilst not writing it down for her, I would let her wear what she wants and not say a think. I think there are bigger battles.
Use your computer when you want - I would allow this to happen, however no data access via wifi or phone between 10pm and 7am (say).
Wash when you want - for now I just wouldn't chase it up, but I wouldn't grant express permission for this.
Leave your stuff where you want - has to be in her room, not all over the house. But her room is her own, she can do whatever she wants with stuff in it.
Tidy your room when you want - I'd let this go, she can do her room whenever she feels like it
Empty your bathrooom bin when you want - I'd also just let her do whatever on this I think (just to reduce the battles)
Study when you want, manage your school stuff however you want - I did this with mine they now acknowledge that they wish they'd done more! But at the time it was just too much of a battle to get them to stop gaming.
Go to sports when you want, give up piano when you want, opt out of family outings when you want - I'd agree to all that, up to her.
Eat whatever/ whenever you want - I would provide 3 meals a day, very limited snacks available. I wouldn't mess about with preparing food at different times for her, because it could really suck your time up!

It sounds like you are struggling with her developing autonomy. Her younger sister is a breeze I imagine because you still control her world.

It is sad that you are pathologising normal developmental behaviour. Children are meant to test boundaries.

The advice I found useful was to parent the child you have not the child you want.

As long as there’s no vermin please ignore the state of her bedroom. Everyone should be entitled a private retreat, and if she wants to be a messy person it’s her business so just tell her to keep the door shut. Yes ‘your house your rules’ but she can hardly move out at 12 can she, so it feels unfair that she can’t keep her room as she likes and deal with the consequences herself (broken items, lost things, etc) The other issues may be valid but a tween’s tip of a room is a nothingburger imho.

You can't just let her do whatever she wants, but teens are very much like toddlers i.e. you need to pick your battles.

I would relax around what she wears, how often she showers, how tidy her room is, how often the bin is emptied, where she leaves her stuff.

I'd have minimal rules re. screen time, homework, piano, clubs, family outings.

Of course she’s going to make poor choices, she’s 11, your job as a parent is to set clear boundaries, give her space to grow and help her when her poor choices impact her. In early teens that’s often going to mean conflict and picking your battles.

While she’s going through enormous cognitive, psychological and physical changes, as parents we’re also going through significant changes. Realising we can’t manage every part of their environment or their behaviour and adjusting our parenting moving towards a more equal relationship is hard but leaving her to “crack on” is unfair when she can’t see possible long term consequences of immature decision making processes. Can you explore where she can have more autonomy without life long harm, the battles you can let go and the mistakes she can make without the outcome being too harmful?

She sounds like a completely typical teenager and I think it’s very unwise to send her to see a psychologist again, and you need to step back a bit - it sounds like you’re smothering her with your expectations.

I totally agree. This is exactly how I feel, and I’m nearly 50. My family is very conservative and make their disdain for my ‘bohemian ways’ well known, so as an adult I moved across the ocean to live a life where no one is cringing of mortification because I’m not into a Kate Middleton look and a “normal” job. It’s sad my parents don’t like me, but they do love me and I love them too. If they would have accepted me as I am (I’m not a shitshow or a criminal, I just don’t care ‘what the neighbours think’) I’d have stayed in my home country.

Your list contains a mixture of things that are very important - going to school - and much less important (when she empties her bathroom bin).

By this age many children start fighting for control and if you give them no control at all over anything they’ll fight very very hard.

start relaxing on the little things.

It sounds to me like you need to let the little things go op. If she gets a regular set of demands and arguments from you she will rebel against it. Why does it matter what she wears or when she empties her bin? Close the door on her bedroom if it bothers you.

Just add within reason to each of your do as you likes. If you nag her about all of those things I can see you both getting frazzled. Pick your battles, her room her mess, the rest of the house pick up your stuff.

Your job as parent of tween/teen is to get them ready for adulthood. Your dd might have a PT job and be deciding whether to have sex in five years, driving in six years, moving out to uni in 7 or 8 years. It’s not long!

You no longer get to impose your idea of what’s important on her. She has her own ideas. You need to guide her, coax her along, whilst letting her feel like she can make her own choices whilst setting some boundaries. eg bedroom should be cleaned and tidied once a week; NO wet towels in the room - if the rule is broken there’s a consequence. Teach her how to do her own laundry; if she doesn’t have clean clothes that is her problem.

You won’t get it right all the time and you’ll be constantly recalibrating.

To everyone saying they would let go on everything or why does it matter - reading between the lines of the OP I would imagine that when these things are individually let go, the bathroom bin (assuming in an en-suite?) does not get emptied resulting in sanitary ware all over the place if periods have started, which is a health hazard. The room is likely so messy that it impedes other functioning such as space to do homework, ability to work out whether clothes need washing, bowls/plates/forks etc disappear into the bedroom so the rest of the family can't use them, and she's spending so much time on the computer that it intrudes into everything else e.g. studying, sleep etc.

That would explain the despairing tone, and the fact OP has tried letting go and concluded that more support is indeed needed.

putting her attention/ focus / energy into superficial things and not engaging with what is important.

What do you mean by this?

At 11 what is deemed important?
Surely most things that age are superficial.

We need more information about her siblings, how old they are etc.
Just the sibling dynamics can massively change her personality - eg being a middle child, being the eldest then having an age gap, being the youngest and treated like a baby etc.

You just need to find a balance.
It’s not all your way vs her way.

She’s growing up and trying to find her independence.
Find things that she can have a choice in and things that cannot be changed.
Give her options so she thinks that she’s making the decision but you still hold the power.
Tell her she can do X if she does Y.

These things are easier said than done and at her age, going through puberty, feeling self conscious, dealing with secondary school etc it’s incredibly challenging for her and you.

Does she have time to be alone in her room?
My DD was overwhelmed by secondary school and she needed to come home and have screen time in her room for a good hour before she felt better.
I didn’t try and keep on at her. She’d have a snack and take it to her room, then by the time I had cooked dinner she was in a better mood to talk and tell me about her day then do homework etc.

I'd pick the important things and keep boundaries in place, however much she pushes. Rest I would ease up on for your peace of mind.

OP, nobody ever said being a parent is easy, but you don’t get to give up on your DC. You always have to hang on to the fact that it’s when they’re most unlovable that they most need love. Your DD is growing up, which is never easy, and she needs you to help her, not just let her drown. Pick your battles - she can have her room untidy if that only impacts on her, but she needs to understand that you don’t just give up on things (sport, piano) because they’re challenging or difficult. She needs to manage her school stuff and homework, and if you let her drop personal hygiene, that will reflect badly on you. Do you eat family meals together, because if so, then she needs to join in. If she doesn’t like something, she doesn’t have to eat it, but no endless grazing followed by a refusal to sit at the table. Having said that, your DD does need some autonomy and control - she needs to be allowed such freedom as she can cope with. A challenging DC really doesn’t need a parent who is going to throw in the towel and leave her to her own devices, difficult though that may be. Good luck, OP - I know it’s not easy, but your DD does need you.

I have a ND teen with PDA so many days are pretty challenging. I'd say:
Wear what you want - as long as it's not obscene (and by that I really mean string bikini in Tesco) then I let her wear what she wants. She has been too hot, too cold etc.. a good few times so I can now very gently ask if she'll be warm enough and she might reconsider.

Use your computer when you want - bedtime and device off time is 9:30pm. She is allowed audio-book to ger her off to sleep but otherwise she can use devices as she want as long as she gets other stuff done.

Wash when you want - she'll find the natural consequences of not washing. Mine is a clean freak so not an issue but yes, I'd probably mostly let her get on with being grubby and just tell her she smelled when she did. I want hug a stinky person though.

Leave your stuff where you want - I bag shift left around and leave it outside her room. Up to her to sort it.

Tidy your room when you want - mine struggles with executive function so needs a lot of help to keep tidy so I do this but she has to take part actively. If she doesn't I don't tidy and the cleaner doesn't clean on a Tuesday and she can just live with the mess. She found out on her own that leaving dishes in her room made it smell so now brings those down almost as often as I'd like.

Empty your bathrooom bin when you want - if I don't have to look at it I'd leave it for her.

Study when you want / manage your school stuff however you want - I don't agree with homework. If school can't ram something in her head in the 9 - 3 day they have her I can't sort it all out when she is tired and disregulated after school so I am totally hands off with school work. She literally can't do more than she is doing so no point me nagging.

Go to sports when you want, give up piano when you want - totally, if she doesn't want to do optional clubs and hobbies then why make her?

Opt out of family outings when you want - ditto, why make her? If she can stay home alone safely then leave her. She'll soon get sad at missing out.

Eat whatever/ whenever you want - food is provided, mine what she wants. There is the main and pudding that is available. If she is hungry later there is an apple. I don't force her to finish things - I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Manage your hygiene how you want - I don't cuddle stinky people and I'd tell her she smelled if she did but I wouldn't try and force a daily morning shower because that's the frequency I prefer.

I'd say you could probably cut down on at least half the arguments but taking a step back and letting her feel some natural consequences. I can't push mine into things so learning through the consequence of her own actions is all that's available and she's a clever kiddo so she has found out she hates to smell, gets hungry if she doesn't eat tea, gets cold if she goes out without a coat, gets told off if she doesn't do homework and hates living in a messy stinky bedroom...

Sounds like pretty usual tween behaviour to me… Nothing out of the ordinary, especially because hormones are kicking in and if she hasn’t already, she will likely start periods quite soon.

I would say look if you don’t to wash it’s fine but you’re going to stink and people at school will call you names. I’d let her drop the piano if she isn’t invested, it isn’t worth the stress. I would remove the computer when you think she’s been on it long enough because you’re a parent and limiting screen time is part of that… All of our products are apple so I can just click a button and switch off my DC’s screen whenever I want! Let the bedroom get messy, close the door and ignore it.

Same, except I’d hope to be the one who tells her she stinks before she embarrasses herself at school or with friends

I’m guessing she has her own bathroom, not just her own bin 🙄 her parents probably clean the bathroom for her so it’s not a big ask she empties her own bathroom waste!

I realised afterwards! Homes where children have their own bathroom are largely outside my personal experience.