To think saving while working is more about discipline than privilege?

[RealPearlTurtle]

I feel like saving is often framed as a privilege, but I do think a lot of it also comes down to habits and discipline where possible.

I understand that not everyone has the capacity to save, but for those who do, it seems like consistency and choices play a big role.

AIBU?

There's obviously an element of discipline but it's a lot easier to be "disciplined" if your denying yourself say designer handbags compared to say food or heating. The more you earn the easier it is to save, and the more you can save (and then invest). If your salary only covers the absolute necessities then no amount of discipline is going to help

Many people have family help which enables them to save, living at home with low/no rent or families that have extra properties they can live in cheaply. Many people have circumstances which prevents them from working long hours e.g. caring responsibilities and earning

And ultimately most people don't become rich from discipline alone. There's always huge elements of luck/privelage and it's naive to thing that "consistency and habits" is the main factor

Is this just sneering at people who don't earn enough to save.

All of this.
original post is giving “have you ever tried just not being poor ?”

I think peoples circumstances differ so widely that you cant make a blanket statement like that. For example, my sister and I support our parents as my mums illness completely depleted their retirement savings and they have nothing to live on. The money we should be saving and pouring into private pensions, goes to supporting them - in effect a completely additional household. How do you discipline something like that and make a choice between your retirement and theirs?? In effect we are deferring our own planning to allow for them to live a reasonable life. On paper it absolutely is a choice, but its a very difficult one in reality. I do believe in personal accountability and savings falls into this bucket, Im just saying that its not a level playing field.

No

The keywords in the OP post are right there! "understand that not everyone has the capacity to save, but for those who do"

@RealPearlTurtle there's no point discussing this on here.

People who can save often don't like to save and then they get all up in arms yelling on here

Of course, if you can't save, you can't save! OP has literally said that in her post

Excluding the people who don't have enough and those who have so much that they'll always have spare money, for the middle majority, it's how you manage your money, not how much you have, that determines how much you save.

For example, how much is your mobile phone each month? Do you get a new high end phone every 2 years on a £50+ pm contract, or do you have a mid range phone, changed every 4 years, that probably averages out at less than half that?

If you had £50 left the day before pay day, would you spend or save it?

If you want something, do you save up for it, earning interest in the process and buy it when you see a special offer, or do you buy it when you decide you want it, whack it on a credit card so pay interest, as well as paying more for the item if it's full price?

Repeat decisions like that over time and the difference in what people can save could be hundreds of pounds a month, thousands of pounds a year, tens of thousands a decade.

Some of it is about choices. We spend lots on holidays because we would rather do that now and have less money in retirement because I have a condition that means I will probably have lost alot of my sight by then.

I feel there is a degree of removing accountability from vast swathes of people, by labelling literally any act of self improvement as ‘privilege’.

Yes it’s harder to save on a low income. But generally it’s possible if disciplined. I mean - lots of migrant workers on minimum wage here working to send money home, as an example.

No matter how disciplined you are, you can’t save from nothing 🙄

Of course it’s about discipline if there is money left over but you will get this thread bogged down by posters talking about people who are not really in this position.

My SIL is apalling with money and she has always earned very well, she even worked offshore for a few years so just like my friends brother who also work's offshore paid no tax.

I have become more well off because I’m disciplined, we earned quite well, in top 5% household income for a time so there is that. But there is a balance between enjoying life so going on holiday overseas every year for instance but being careful and not really splurging. Investing and compound interest over the years means we are in a far better position than we would have been. SIL could have done the same she has had years on and off where she was out earning DH and I combined. But she needs instant gratification as a person. It’s just her personality type. She recently gave us four tickets to see a show, generous. But she buys tickets to shows she has zero idea if will be able to see as she travels with work constantly. It’s just a bit reckless, so that’s close to £150 gone. She can have some weeks where she will make 10k. She hasn’t even paid off her mortgage yet. She has also propped up useless boyfriends over the years, they literally see her coming.

What does "not enough" mean though?
Even if you categorise it as "enough for basics" quite often people make decisions about "basics" e.g. where to live. If you've chosen to live in a very cheap area and walk everywhere, then your basics are higher than if you live in an expensive area and run a car.

I do agree saving is a mindset. If I had £1 spare I would rather save it than spend it. But for me that's definitely the mindset from actually have had not much - I always worry that I might fall on hard times again. People who don't save often assume everything will be fine or have a "live for today" mindset.

It's not that simple OP. I can save now. I'm lucky a job opened up that I slotted into perfectly which gave me a pay rise. Prior to this I was taking home £2000 a month. My rent was £1000, council tax 120, gas, electric, car, fuel, all other bills, childcare, food etc, and a minimal amount of universal credit. I used to save £30-40 a month and then my car would break down, or i would need a new washing machine, which then lead to me having to use a credit card, and then no savings at all as I was just paying this off. Life is not always that simple.

I just think it's really important that you look at (and maybe even declare) your own

income
essential outgoings
amount of financial and other support given by your family

before you say this. If you are on a low salary, did not have the privilege of a private education, don't have childcare help, don't expect to inherit loads, have a large mortgage/rent, and you are still managing to save then I'm ready to listen to you.

For the privileged, saving is about discipline. Obviously.

For those who don't have enough money to save, no amount of discipline is going to help, so it is obviously about privilege.

For yourself, or someone else where you have full knowledge of their incomings and outgoings, you may have a specific point. For everyone else - how could you know who has the "capacity to save" and who doesn't? It seems like you are acknowledging that you are wrong to judge, and then going ahead and judging willy-nilly anyway. Why?

Of course there are people who fail to save, or even fall short of meeting their ongoing obligations, out of a lack of willpower to save, or in some cases a lack of knowledge about how to do it. But there are also plenty of people already spending a great deal of energy allocating every penny who are also unable to break even, let alone save. I think if you haven't been in the position yourself (and I mean long term, with no viable route out and no short-term relief available) you probably hugely underestimate how much effort goes in to just surviving, and the extent to which not having ANY money to spare adds so much expense in its own right.

Oh I don’t know. I am inclined to believe that some of it is discipline, but that people’s priorities do sometimes seem to be a little “off”. I can only judge my DC on this: E.g. while working in their first jobs, they were buying lunch from supermarkets, costing around £40.00 per week (over 35% of their pay) instead of getting up 10 minutes earlier and making packed lunches from what I had already bought for this purpose.
Once they moved into a flat share, they did start making themself packed lunches, but while this improved, and they were able to start saving, they still spent money on unnecessary items, while neglecting other things, such as shoes and clothes.
Now they are back home, they are getting better and have realised that they should save money regularly (even if, as happened before they moved back) they had to spend all of their savings on very necessary repairs to their car.
As I pointed out - that’s WHY you should have savings, and it is tough, but eventually, you will have savings that you don’t have to touch, and that’s when it starts getting better…

For everyone else - how could you know who has the "capacity to save" and who doesn't

Many people demonstrate their capacity to save by spending a lot of money on non essentials such as grooming, takeaways, coffees, lease cars, new phones, etc etc. Yet when the washing machine breaks or their DC need school uniforms, suddenly they're struggling to make ends meet.

There is something in this and it’s unreasonable to assume the OP is being sneery.

There are people who can afford to save who don’t who are just utterly reckless with the income
they have - I was one of those people including DH. We had a difficult life event that threw all our finances under the spotlight. At that point there was a re evaluation of spending. We are both spenders.

Having got through that and very late to learning about retirement planning I’m now much more educated and saving. I cringe to think how reckless we were.

I’ve been driving a long while and love having a car - I appreciate it more and more.

I hope to educate my children so they learn good spending and saving habits and understand about interest charges and how compound interest works.

We practice a certain level of discipline and saving. The discipline is more planning to make money for days out go further. We don’t always manage this, just this week I messed up and ended up getting food ordered in which is unhealthy and bad financially as not budgeted for but I do try.

I see your point OP - I can still remember older family members telling me about making there own clothes from patterns as they couldn’t afford the fashions - it’s the loss of make do and mend as well as cutting your cloth budget wise.

I’m v fortunate as I don’t have any serious financial pressure like heating v eating.

100%. I'm tired of listening to people after sympathy about how they can't save who enjoy a lifestyle I consider at total odds with the notion of savings.

For instance, my mum, always going on about how she struggles, yet think spending £100 plus on a face cream a necessity. My neighbour who moans about how she can't afford a holiday but has her heating on almost all day at 25 until a time of the year when I have long turn it off. And no, she doesn't have any disabilities. She just likes it very warm and sees it a need.

Then my colleague always going on about how hard it is for those in their 20s, coming in almost every morning, having stopped at the petrol station and bought both breakfast and lunch.

I could go on....I'm comfortable and able to save, but all the above are to me unnecessary luxuries and even though I could technically afford them, I rather save instead.

I heard a saying once - if you can't afford to save,you can't afford not to save. Remembering this often stops me from a want not need purchase and because I do it so often I really, really enjoy it if I do treat myself!
I've turned it into a wholesome 'delayed gratification' thing, so now I'm trendy too!

I understand that not everyone has the capacity to save, but for those who do, it seems like consistency and choices play a big role.

So what you are saying is that it comes down to privilege first of all and then if you are privileged enough to be in a position to do it then discipline comes into play...

There will always be people who fit into this category.

When we were both fairly fresh into the workplace, I mentioned having a clothing budget to my sister, who agreed and then said she had a figure four times what I spent. She talked about not having savings, but I basically saved the difference (no wonder she always looked nice!).

Later she was reading something about her pension and said, "500 per month, is that a lot?" - her husband rolled his eyes and said it was three times his workplace pension.

She's very careless with money in general - never in debt but very generous and charitable too. I'm uptight about money personally. Savings first and all accounted for.

They should be getting help to live on

It's hard to save when everything in your house or your car breaks on a regular basis so money just gushes out of your account.

If she's earning 10k a week how do you know she's not making an informed choice to book shows at £150 that she may not be able to see but doesn't want to miss and to her its worth it to book them?