To think telling a child to "cover up" because of male teachers is ewwww?

[FreeeeeeeeFreeFalling]

DD and her mates were wearing fairly standard vest tops at school for an own clothes day. All dressed exactly the same. DD singled out and told to cover up (I suspect because she is slightly larger chested than the others), which she found humiliating. She was told "there are male teachers around" as the reason!
They are 16.
I kind of think if male teachers can't keep their eyes to themselves, they shouldn't be teachers, right?!

AIBU to think this is a bit off?

It depends what you mean by a vest top - they vary enormously in what they expose.

I agree with posters who think school wear (like work wear) should stay pretty formal (not a suit, but perhaps a shirt or similar).

Just from my personal point of view - it's nothing to do with men - I don't want to see your buzzies or your arse cheeks either, thanks very much. I'm not referring to your daughter, OP - I mean in general.

I don’t really see why it’s a problem? The only problem I see is where some people understand the code and some don’t, and then those that don’t are disadvantaged eg with corporate dress codes etc.

Men have been leering, staring, shouting at and sexually assaulting me for 40 years now. "Covering up" changed nothing, especially as a child and young woman.

The problem is men. The other problem is women who blame clothes for men's behaviour.

Men. Exactly.

It only 'suits' some bodies better if curves are seen as aberrant

I have to say - pps who believe dogmatically that other people (men and women) should be able to cope with clothing that exposes areas of the body which are culturally considered erogenous...

If a man appeared in public - say in a park or coffee shop -wearing something like ballet tights or thin, skin-tight leggings, or the sort of shorts some young girls wear, which expose the cheeks of their backside...would you honestly not mind that? I would.

I find it embarrassing - and I mean, it's embarrassing for them! I was walking behind 3 teenagers on Sunday, one of whom was wearing thin peach-coloured leggings. Her backside including her knickers, digging into her flesh, were on show for everyone to see. She had clearly not looked in a mirror to see her rear view. I dropped back (which was inconvenient - I was in a hurry) but one look at that sight was more than enough.

I don't mind that most people will disagree with me and call me all sorts...but I hate the pretence that you can wear anything and it's no-one else's business. In your own home, sure. But in public - have a care for other people.

This amuses me. Do you think the men should be pleased to see their breasts and bums? Would that be better? More feminist, perhaps?

I'm actually on that rape thread, and have expressed my utter disgust, filled in the form, and expressed my personal pipe dream to shoot the perpetrators.

But I'm capable of understanding that no decent adult, male or female, actually wants to have to look at a teenage girl's breasts/arse being half-exposed all day long in the classroom, because the girl is trying to appeal to the male gaze and signal how grown up/cool she is to her peers.

It's unpleasant and awkward.

And schools are a workplace, and educational institution; students of both sexes should wear clothing that covers the entirety of their chests, and their legs to mid-thigh. There's absolutely no reason for them not to.

Good for you. I have been badly dressed in loose fitting work clothes and eating untidily in a café and a man parked himself nearby and stared with his hand in his pocket. I am middle aged and seldom wear makeup but still 30E and I might be tempted to chop them off if I were a teen nowadays.

Poor incels. Not.

I've said in multiple comments that if staring appears to be sexually motivated, that's entirely different. I also said if someone is covered, there's no reason to stare, and it's particularly rude to do so, as they're obviously not trying to be on display. Clearly in your case, it was sexually motivated, and it's disgusting.

My point regarding 'staring' is more that where someone is clearly exposing themselves - shorts that show half their arse, or low cut tops they're nearly falling out of - it is silly to complain that someone has looked for a couple of seconds.

I'm sick of women deliberately appealing to the male gaze by wearing shockingly revealing clothes, and then complaining when they gaze. This choosy-choice feminism where women claim they shave their legs for themselves, wear sexy clothes for themselves, and spend hundreds on expensive make up for themselves, and it has nothing to do with patriarchy at all, or appealing to the male gaze, is irritating.

I am off to rearrange my vest and camisole drawer, being newly inspired to wear these to work with a light summer jacket.

The schoolgirl should not have been bodyshamed.

Enjoy the summer, all.

Totally agree.

And it isn't just other people you are caring about: it's self respect as well.

I don't see why my body should have every inch of it exposed to others. I'm not ashamed of it: I just feel proprietary of certain views.

'This amuses me.'

@OtterlyAstounding

It amuses you?

'Do you think the men should be pleased to see their breasts and bums? Would that be better? More feminist, perhaps?'

Does posting this drivel help you in some way?

'But I'm capable of understanding that no decent adult, male or female, actually wants to have to look at a teenage girl's breasts/arse being half-exposed all day long in the classroom, because the girl is trying to appeal to the male gaze and signal how grown up/cool she is to her peers.'

You meant to say the child. Children need help and support from adults with some of the things they perceive to be important.

Your "amusement" and nasty language shows your inability to grasp what the real issue is. Take some time to really think about it. You'll get there with a bit of effort I'm sure.

I went to an all girls school with few male teachers and people were still rolling up their skirt and so on. (I didn't but I was obsessed with shaping eyebrows and keeping legs smooth.)

It is about play and costume and experimenting with new independence in a developing female body. Finding out how it feels to be this or that version of a young woman in the world.

Well that's a bit of a jump isn't it? To now accuse the young boy of being part of an incel for looking at a girl who had her @ss on full display....... Why is it always the lads fault?

Yeah fine. But if I run a business that says female employees must wear skirts under the knee, shoulders covered, no overt cleavage I don't get to just pinpoint one person who has followed the rules and say - no you shouldn't be doing this because of how it looks on you. This situation is ten times worse because it's a teenager and adult men being present were mentioned too.

The notion that one is singled out is absolutely a problem.

I suspect where this problem comes from - and I see how it is hard to get around - is that the same top can reveal less or more depending on the person.

Obviously someone with a larger bust will fill the top out differently and the fabric will have less coverage. The same can be true of someone taller, for whom the same vest might rise up well above the belly button whereas on another wearer it sits on the waistline.

So it may well be they were wearing similar tops but the rules - and lets take the ones you have suggested - were broken in the case of one wearer but not the other. In that instance I'd focus on the rule, not the top, not the wearer's body.

I mean if I put on a 5 year old's vest I'd show a lot more than the five year old would ...

Yes! I see schoolboys with their arses hanging out of their trousers every day, but somehow female teachers manage to not be distracted - men need to grow up, quit the paedophilic porn, and learn to treat women and girls as human beings who have arns, legs etc but are not on this planet as their free entertainment - otherwise we end up with male teachers being like the Taliban - making women and girls cover up because they can't stop being creepy.

I was responding to the poster who said the teacher showing off a figure that wasn't model perfect would incur sneering from teen-agers.

We should set a better example.

Wear clothes you like, do things you enjoy. Don't miss out on experiences because you don't have model proportions.

Sometimes you can’t help but stare at a ghastly sight!

That’s why traffic slows if there’s been an accident to gawk at!

I see schoolboys with their arses hanging out of their trousers every day…

Really?
The fashion must be different where I live!

Exactly this. One rule for everyone, not 'depending on your body type...'

But breasts are sexual to men, even if not to women, and flashing 6" of buxom cleavage in school is not appropriate.

I wouldn't want a teenage boy showing off a six pack either.

School is not the place.

Yes, that's because girls are socialised to appeal to the male gaze, regardless of whether it's actively present in the moment or not.

As Margaret Atwood wrote, "You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur."

They can hang down at the waist - but I'd ask them pull them up if I was a teacher. Simple.

Exactly this.

I don't go out ever caring about the "male gaze". I'll wear what I am comfortable in, and is appropriate for the situation. If that happens to include a top with a V neck, there's going to be cleavage because my boobs are big. Even a shallow V, there'll be some because that's just how my body looks.

I'm not wearing the top for men, I'm wearing it because I like it, I feel good in it and it suits whatever reason I've gone out.

I shave my legs because when it's warm out it feels nicer than if they're hairy. Not for men to see.

The exception is if I deliberately want to "wind up" my husband, which tbh doesn't take much and then that's usually just NOT wearing something 😜