So angry. AIBU the driver who is now disputing he caused crash

[Eastie77Returns]

I was sitting stationery in my car when another driver drove into the side of my car causing substantial damage. He was an elderly man who emerged from the car looking quite confused and buffudled. He was extremely apologetic and we exchanged details. My claim was initially a no-fault claim but the other driver has now claimed that I drove into his car (impossible, I was not moving) and damaged HIS car. This despite the photos showing my doors are caved in and his car barely has a scratch. The incident happened outside a local business but the owners will not release the CCTV footage due to GDPR etc.

This will obviously impact my premiums going forward and NCB. I have been driving since the age of 17 and have never had an accident.

I have this person's number and am tempted to send him angry text message. I know this will not acheive anything. WWYD in this situation?

Ignore. Hadn't RTFT

I don't understand why your insurers aren't dealing with this. If he smashed into your car and the damage to your car is all on the side, it's pretty obvious you are not at fault? Our insurers went all the way to court on our behalf in a similar situation where, arguably, DH did have at least SOME responsibiltiy for the accident but the main fault was hers as she did drive out of a parking lot and into the side of our car. In the end, the judge called it 50:50 so that was still a win for us as she was claiming it was entirely DH's fault.

The insurance companies themselves don't help with this, as the standard instruction to drivers is to never accept fault. I get that they want to pay out as little as possible; but I am obviously at fault and responsible for damaging somebody's car - knowing how inconvenient it invariably is for them in their day to day lives, even if people do eventually get redress - I'm not going to tell a lie and/or deny it; I will sincerely apologise and accept liability.

Don't just leave it to the insurer's to deal with, they are absolutely shit at fighting anything.. if you have legal cover, pursue it that way through a solicitor, or even approach a solicitor without it, insurance will only do the bare minimum.

10 years ago, a guy smashed into my car on a dual carriageway, he was racing another car, and undertook the car in front of him without seeing me on the inside lane.. he went straight to a solicitor and my insurance just rolled over, and informed me I would be found at fault! Luckily I had 3 witnesses (which my insurance company lost the details of), the police had attended the scene, and it ended in a court case, where he was done for dangerous driving. the insurance company were beyond useless.. it took months for them to right their mistake.

My unattended parked car was hit by someone in a stolen car and I had the same issue with the insurance company being useless then too, the driver was detained at the scene (after unsuccessfully trying to run off) and they insisted they couldn't do anything without the drivers details.. I'm still waiting for a portion of it to be paid out and it was 3 years ago.

Do everything you can to get the names of witnesses, draw diagrams and get legal representation, who should be able to acquire CCTV footage. Do NOT just leave it to the lazy insurance company, otherwise you will be paying the price for years to come. It's a no fault accident on your part and it needs to be recorded that way.

make a police report if you havent already - make sure to include that he moved his vehicle to another location after hitting you

Sounds like your insurers are crap and it's them you should be angry with. The physical evidence ought to be enough to show that you aren't at fault so the insurers just can't be arsed to pay for someone to come and look at the damage and evaluate it - shape of dents and scrapes for a collision where you are moving are completely different from the shape of dents and scrapes for a collision where your car is stationary so an appropriately experienced Insurance Assessor would be able to uphold your story, but I guess the insurers consider it cheaper to cave in and make you accept blame than it is to employ appropriately experienced Insurance Assessors. That's really poor customer service.

But no don't contact the other party.

Wow, I had similar but my insurance dealt with it as it was clear from the damage whose fault the accident was. I submitted a very clear diagram as this was before phone photos were so available. I also had legal cover and I wonder if that is what makes the difference. Try getting witnesses, and as others have suggested the cctv without being fobbed off, and drawing up a clear diagram - if the insurers can see that you aren’t inclined just to let them settle it 50:50 they may listen to you.

Call me petty, but the very least I would do is to contact the DVLA and inform them that he may no longer be fit to keep his driving licence - on the grounds that I observed him not only drive into a parked car but then looked very confused and I gather he didn't even realise what he'd done.

Yes, nothing will probably come of it and he will likely get away with it; but at least him opening an official letter stating that his fitness to drive is under question and his licence could be taken away would give him brown trousers pause for thought, and would be his just deserts.

He might actually be at the point where he genuinely should stop driving - and maybe his about-turn with admitting liability is out of fear that this will lead to his licence being taken away; but that doesn't mean that OP should have to be massively out of pocket for it.

If your car had been moving the damage would have been smeared dents, not just one impression.

Even f you haven't pictures of the two cars in contact other pictures of the site, damage, diagrams can only help your case.

Hang in there OP and let the insurance companies deal with it.
I had something similar and was furious when it was initially dealt with as 50/50. The person who hit me had negligible damage and his insurance company tried to avoid paying 50%.
My insurance company threatened them with court action. I had to be prepared to attend.
In the end the insurance company needs to be sure that their client will be able to perform adequately in court. Their client mis spelled the make of his own car and when the insurance continues swapped reports prior to court action his side accepted liability and I had the claim removed from my policy and the excess I had paid returned. His own insurance company had stamped his statement as ‘poor standard’
You might have to be firm with your own insurance company but there is every chance it will be resolved.

I had very similar, admittedly 15 years ago. Was advised by friend who worked in insurance law to push back hard with insurer. If there is no way that damage could have been caused by you, then flatly refused to accept their decision and threaten complaints/ombudsman etc, They are just being incredibly lazy and like you say, it's you that will end up paying for that. I wrote them long email with photos explaining circumstances, that I was presentable, credible witness should it go to court, unlike the very frail old man who hit my car, and they therefore could have complete confidence in me and my claim, and should fight it tooth and nail. That I wasn't prepared to accept insurance hit and would escalate it if they tried to force me. It did take a bit of back and forth but it did work, they did make other side take 100% blame.

Post on your local areas Facebook pages (or the ones for the area the gym is in if not local) asking for anyone who saw it to please get in touch (avoid slagging off the other party course! Just to stick to “I had an accident at X place at X time, please can anyone who saw it let me know”).

If several people saw it I’d be surprised if at least one of them doesn’t see the post or hasn’t repeated it to a family member when they got home who will see the post.

Push your own insurers harder. Believe me it is not worth the stress and hassle of trying to obtain a civil or criminal claim (well, you won’t get a criminal one)

I know it feels unjust but it’s just one of those things. Your insurance really shouldn’t increase much for one accident.

Does your gym have a fb page as if so you could put a post on there asking for the witnesses to contact you.

@Eastie77Returns
You have the legal right to get any CCTV that you are in. They can edit it to blur other faces, but they cannot deny you. Make a SAR for the footage containing you and your car during the minutes that the accident took place.

They cannot use GDPR as a get out because you are asking for your own personal data - your images.

Speak again with your insurance company and tell them you are refusing 50/50 and want to go to court. I’d also call the police about the accident and the insurance fraud the guy is committing.

Happens all the time.

Problem is the insurance companies may agree 50/50 to clear it.

Tell your lot you’ve been getting headaches. That might get pressure on CCTV lot as crash with injury will be treated differently.

You’ll probably get ambulance chasers regardless

Tell you insurers you are happy it should get to court.. I did as I wasn't guilty of anything... Tell them you won't accept 50/50 but will happily go to court. Then I imagine they can get the cctv footage as evidence.. It was my word against his and we were going to court until he backed down at the last minute..

Ask your gym if they would release footage to the insurers, we would do this as a business. Not to any private person but to police and insurance if they request it.
Tell your insurance that you don't want to accept 50/50 and try as you say to find your fellow gym members to be witnesses.

You have to release it to a private person if they request any images of themselves. They are entitled to those.

id give the information of the business with cctv to the insurance company
your premiums would rise anyway, mine did when a driver drove into the back of me

explain to your insurance you were still in traffic with handbrake on, in traffic so how could it be your fault?

im guessing you didn't get witness behind or in front?

Yes but it may be easier to get it if the insurance company officially request it

I'm so angry on your behalf. Though it's probably his insurance company who are telling him to say this, rather than him himself iyswim. Good luck!!!

You said that you would refuse to release it to a private person at your business. I’m just letting you know that you can’t do that.

Don’t accept this. Contest it with your insurers. Ask them to specifically identify how you drove into his car, if the damage is entirely on your side doors. Report to the police as insurance fraud and give the insurers your crime number, ask the police to request the CCTV. It sounds like you need to actively manage the case.

You can make a claim against him in court, yes. You do not need to accept your own insurer’s position.

Civil procedure rule 31.12A can be used to force him to ask the gym for the video.

Good luck.

Edited to say - this isn’t really a police matter but you should be able to deal with it quite simply yourself in the small claims court.