to find some expectations around constant productivity while WFH unrealistic?

[juststoop]

I work in an industry where the workflow naturally has peaks and troughs. Sometimes it is absolutely manic and I barely stop all day. Other times it is fairly quiet and there simply isn’t a constant stream of work coming in every minute.

Occasionally, during the quieter periods, I might post on Mumsnet more while WFH. Yet whenever I mention I’m working from home, there are inevitably comments saying I should not be posting online, that I should be working every second, that I’m giving WFH a bad name, and that people like me are the reason everyone will be forced back into the office.

I honestly find this attitude bizarre. Do people really think office workers are productive every single minute they are physically in a workplace? Because in every office I have ever worked in, there has always been chatting, tea breaks, people wandering over to someone’s desk for a gossip, scrolling phones, long lunches, staring into space, and generally filling quieter periods.

The difference with WFH is that some people seem to expect absolute nonstop visible productivity at all times, as though you must sit frozen at your laptop waiting for the next email to arrive.

Also, my workplace is not “marching everyone back in”. They have literally sold off large amounts of office space, so there physically is not room for everyone anyway. Hybrid and remote working are clearly here to stay in many industries.
As long as the work is completed properly, deadlines are met, and people are available when needed, I do not understand why someone posting on a forum for five minutes during a quiet spell suddenly becomes something to get judgy about.

I am not saying everyone does this btw.

Try working in a school office, there’s barely a moment to draw breath there ! WFH isn’t going to happen here ever. And we work in the holidays before you ask.

You don't always know someone is working in the office either!

I can imagine it is full on. I prefer my workflow to be up and down. Busy moments but lots of quite periods too.

Well to some extent that's true. But definitely not to the extent where you could have been raising a child in the office.

I’ve noticed that there’s also jealousy in flexibility. If you work in a job that typically can’t be done from home (plumber, decorator, school teacher, nurse, Doctor, bus driver etc) there can be a bit of envy that others are able to WFH and pop out to do the school run, put a wash load on etc and still be seen as performing well in their roles.

Absolutely this. OP - I could have written your opening post. My job fluctuates, whether I'm in the office or WFH. On an office day, if its quiet I'll have a wonder around, chat to someone in a different office, get a coffee etc. And all this seems quite acceptable, because I'm in the office.

If I did all of the above on a WFH day, and posted about it on MN, I would expect a lot of criticism. I should add that I post on MN no matter where I'm working! I expect this afternoon to be deadly quiet, because its the Friday before a Bank Holiday and a lot of the people I usually deal with are on holiday. I'm at home, I'll keep popping washing into the machine, but I will still be available by email, Teams and phone, until I log off at 4pm. The same as if I were in the office.

You can't do your laundry or the decorating in the office either.

Can you enlighten me about all these meetings? Do they actually get any work done I do remember my partner telling me everyone would be a damn sight more productive if so much time wasn't wasted on endless meetings

@Thechaseison71 in my organisation, I find that many meetings are a complete waste of time, and if you add up the hourly rates of all the attendees, you'd be horrified at the cost. But 'being in a meeting' is still deemed an acceptable use of corporate team, and no one questions it, whereas people still seem suspicious of WFH.

Yes true. And just doing a little bit of gardening, taking the dogs out, you couldn't do those in the office.

My role is the same. Some days I have almost nothing to do. My laptop is on and I'm nearby- if it pings with a message or an email I respond immediately but I may also be doing other things whilst I'm effectively on standby.

Other days, I'm busy all day and work through lunch.

My employer is very flexible and doesn't enforce any silly rules, so they get the same back from me. If (as has occasionally happened) they ask if we will log on and do work at 9pm, I will log on and do work at 9pm. If something comes up and I need to stay working until 7pm, I'll do that.

It’s pretty easy to tell if someone isn’t working - they produce nothing and complaints start coming in.

Absolutely this. My job requires me to attend to matters as soon as they arise. if it comes in today, it needs to be done (or at least started) today. It would soon become very apparent if this wasn't happening.

It's easy to tell in some jobs, but I suspect not for all jobs. I do think it's the company's problem where this happens but when people are working in the office it's generally going to be clearer when they are or are not working..

I have spent months doing nothing in full time office jobs when I was younger. No one noticed or did anything about it.

Yes I'm sure you did..and it was visible. For those WFH it is less visible.

How was it visible? Were you there?

This.
My learning style and the way I like to work has always been most suited to working alone in my own space so I've always worked more efficiently at home, regardless of the scenario. At school, uni and in the office I would join in with the chat and endless rounds of tea and biccies. Completing homework, coursework and then WFH, definitely more efficient for me, I just crack on without distractions (and background noise which always throws me off - I like a quiet space).

I don't know what your job was but if you worked in an office your manager or other staff could have seen you.. unless you were locked up in a basement or some other inaccessible location.

You don't know basically but are making assumptions.

Yes I am. You haven't given me any details..I am making assumptions based on what any normal person would understand which is that when you are in the office your work is visible and when you are WFH it is not.

You clearly disagree although you can't understand it and haven't explained your side of things. This will be my last response to you .

any normal person would understand which is that when you are in the office your work is visible and when you are WFH it is not.

It is not always so straightforward.

I also spent years working in offices and it seemed that there was always a few very vocal people (nearly all women) who would spend most of their day flapping around frantically, saying things about having 250 unread emails and being extremely busy. They were usually continuing to flap about until 6/7pm and were always treated as extremely hard working individuals, although they didn't actually seem to DO anything.

WFH is a disaster for those people because they have no-one to perform their busy-ness to and instead are judged on their actual output.

For people like me, who found the pressure to "look busy" for 40 hours intolerable and work in short bursts of high productivity, it's ideal.

It really depends on the person’s character. I wouldn't personally take liberties because I still feel so grateful I got to WFH when my kids were young. They still went to nursery and had wraparound care but it just meant I could actually make a 6pm collection without panicking.

On the flip side, I've had colleagues join calls while walking their dogs, hoovering (twice, whoopsie!), or working (and playing) from a golf club or shopping centre.
-->They were all male.

I'm not saying this is necessarily a gender problem. Working in Tech, most of my colleagues are men anyway but the working mums I know tend to work diligently and will log in on their non-working days if a project needs it. I'm sure there's a lot of behavioural science behind it all (and this thread has got me curious now!) but from my experience:

• Multitasking home, family, and work forces a certain level of strict time-boxing (when things are steady and life hasn't thrown a curveball, of course).

• A bit of insecurity (as a psychological stick) e.g. I needed to prove my self worth because I became part time, missing out on office chat I then felt left behind (loop).

After 20+ years in the Industry and investing alot of my personal time in continuously skilling up, I would say insecurity is no longer an issue but maintaining my hours has become a habit now.

We were actually encouraged to go for a walk during the team meeting to promote our physical and mental fitness. I didn't do it, but it made absolutely no difference to anyone else on the team if someone was walking and listening/talking or sat behind a desk for the call.

I agree OP. Work is something you do, not a place you go. Funny how during busy periods, people are expected to come in early, work late, have no breaks at all, yet during quieter periods, recouping that excess effort is seen as slacking. If you WFH, it should be fine to do your laundry or surf the net on quieter days, provided all work is up to date and you are free to jump in immediately when it gets busy again.

In all offices I've ever worked in, people also check out holidays, clothes and news online, chat and gossip, book hair or dental appointments etc when work is quiet. But are flat out when work is busy. Fair enough.

I guess that's fair and it's great this was encouraged in your team. I'm not totally convinced with respect to my colleagues though:

• they sounded hurried, unprepared and flustered
• I saw pics of them hanging out with a laptop casually on their laps.

I love the idea though, a relaxed walk in a quiet park... I might give it a go on one of the team meetings :-)