to find some expectations around constant productivity while WFH unrealistic?

[juststoop]

I work in an industry where the workflow naturally has peaks and troughs. Sometimes it is absolutely manic and I barely stop all day. Other times it is fairly quiet and there simply isn’t a constant stream of work coming in every minute.

Occasionally, during the quieter periods, I might post on Mumsnet more while WFH. Yet whenever I mention I’m working from home, there are inevitably comments saying I should not be posting online, that I should be working every second, that I’m giving WFH a bad name, and that people like me are the reason everyone will be forced back into the office.

I honestly find this attitude bizarre. Do people really think office workers are productive every single minute they are physically in a workplace? Because in every office I have ever worked in, there has always been chatting, tea breaks, people wandering over to someone’s desk for a gossip, scrolling phones, long lunches, staring into space, and generally filling quieter periods.

The difference with WFH is that some people seem to expect absolute nonstop visible productivity at all times, as though you must sit frozen at your laptop waiting for the next email to arrive.

Also, my workplace is not “marching everyone back in”. They have literally sold off large amounts of office space, so there physically is not room for everyone anyway. Hybrid and remote working are clearly here to stay in many industries.
As long as the work is completed properly, deadlines are met, and people are available when needed, I do not understand why someone posting on a forum for five minutes during a quiet spell suddenly becomes something to get judgy about.

I am not saying everyone does this btw.

I am posting this while WFH. I have no work to do as finished a project and next one doesn't start till June.
I'd say they are probably just jealous.
I'm off to put the dishwasher on.

I've had similar experiences describing how I wfh on here. Those posters could not comprehend a job role that has down-time and honestly, in my previous roles, I may have thought the same.

I've had jobs that were high workload and were often non-stop. My current position, I am busy at the start and end of the month with low workload the rest of the time. I'm reactive to calls, paperwork and emails but I can have 100s of emails a week or 10. Lots of peaks and troughs. It took me years to adjust to not being busy after years of being and looking busy. Where I am now, my employers are hands off, flexible and happy as long as all the work is done to a high standard. We've been wfh since 2020 but a couple of years prior to that we sold our business but the owner employed us for his next venture, we had a period of 9 months doing nothing. That was a weird time of driving to work to watch Netflix and then driving home.

Human beings are also fluid, there are days when I'm not fully productive and days when I get a works week done! WFH doesn't effect that, and I am generally more productive and focused at home than in the office.

I suppose there might be an element of jealousy. When you read about someone who's going for facials, to gym etc or even looking after children, then it gets people's back up. I spoke to someone from HMRC recently and I heard a child in the background.

The real issue with the working from home is the division of the capability of management of the employees who are and who are not doing it. I'm not talking about monitoring key board strokes or computer activity, but being able to set appropriate targets and expectations, assesses outcomes and progress on tasks and objectively review performance and effectiveness of that work for the goals of the organisation . The middle management role has traditionally been moniting processes and outputs and been very weak on assessing outcomes or effectiveness of work. But WFH has changed that and tbh alot of managers aren't up to the challenges. Many employees in the office are managed to see getting their work done as an output, and are not focused outcome. Whereas those not on the office very much focus on outcomes and work in bursts to achieve them then blend in other domestic tasks.
Those that were focused and recognised as crucial to outcomes in an organisation have had work flexibility for years.
Everyone agrees that it's about 'getting the job done' but how that is defined and measured and evaluated is completely another question and it is definitely one of the issues between the office and home employees, but it is ultimately a management issue.
Maybe some of the savings on accommodation can be spent on training managers.

I think those who automatically hate on the concept of working from home haven’t updated their mental mapping of what work should actually be. It’s not productive to ‘find work-related things to do’ - that is presenteeism. If you are paid for your skill, knowledge, and outcome of tasks, then these shouldn’t be measured by how many times you jiggle a mouse or minutes on a clock.

However, it’s lunacy to suggest that wfh automatically means fewer hours. I used to work in an office where time spent showing your face was what mattered - and most people were doing absolutely nothing. However, if you spent a day working at home and produced a lot of work, it was seen as suspicious because your every breath was not being controlled. It’s a bizarre way to think about work, and it’s not remotely efficient. It’s been proven time and time again that autonomy and work-life balance produces happier workers. Happier workers work harder for their organisations.

Those who are shit are shit whether they are in the office or at home.

I regularly get told to stop stressing about making sure I work every hour of my working day when WFH and to relax a bit more about it by my managers! (I'm too conscientious for my own good sometimes)

I also get bugger all done in the office cos I'm easily distracted and our office crowd are a bunch of chatterboxes (I love 'em really) - but it IS productive chatter about clients etc usually - so it's swings and roundabouts.

We no longer have enough office space for everyone to come in anyway.

@Monty36- this is such an interesting perspective, what do you do for a living?

I have definitely been on the receiving end of this - it is like people don't understand that I can go on mumsnet for a bit even if I am WFH. Some people think every second needs to be worked.

You have to think about what would be allowed if you were in the office., and I don't think that MN posting would be. Chatting with colleagues is functional for the employer to some extent (strengthening workplace relationships). Social media breaks (especially given how addictive and focus-draining social media is) are more likely to be to your employer's detriment.

I certainly agree that office like has plenty of little breaks and distractions, but I don't think that those really translate at home into much more than making a cuppa and answering the door when Amazon (etc) knocks.

Here is a perfect example of what I mean!!!!!!!

I've just come back from doing some shopping!

I had a hybrid role. During periods when I was in the office a lot I’d have to
have a wfh day to actually get some bloody work done!

I don’t these days. But that doesn’t mean as many seem to want to assume I have some peculiar outdated notion of work being without peaks and troughs.
What I am old fashioned about is convincing yourself you are at work when you aren’t.

Agree. Anyone who has ever lived life or been employed would absolutely know that work ebbs and flows. It’s normal.

It ebbs and flows in an office, where people can twiddle their thumbs online shopping, or in retail or hospitality sat daydreaming or chatting at a cashier desk.

Time wasters and poor employees who WFH will also be time wasters and poor employees in an office.

BINGO!

@sweetpickle2 if someone does a job that is entirely made up of specific tasks eg proof reading a book (probably done by AI now but I’m trying to think of an example), and all they have to do is proof read X number of books per week, then of course it doesn’t matter when they do it. They can do it in the middle of the night if they want to.

But most jobs aren’t like that I don’t think. Are there many people on here who would happily tell their boss that they were planning to start work at 9, have a nap at 11, have a 2 hour lunch, then clock off after picking up the kids from school? Would they be confident their boss would say “that’s fine, just as long as you get your work done”?

I’d have thought that most bosses would think that if your work could be done in 4 hours rather than 8, then maybe you should be on a part time wage.

I’d have thought that most bosses would think that if your work could be done in 4 hours rather than 8, then maybe you should be on a part time wage.

Sometimes I can get everything done in 1 hour, sometimes when it is very busy, I need 10 hours. Should they keep rewriting my contract?

I'm most places apart from offices people are expected to be productive constantly during work hours so even non WFH people have more leeway than many other jobs. Those WFH ( my partner did it for years) are often taking it easy

OP the one thing you can’t argue with, is that on MN, people who WFH have 2 favourite things they like to say.

1. They like to say how unfair it is that everyone thinks they do nothing all day.
2. They like to tell everyone how much free time and flexibility they have.

It’s WFH bingo.

Personally I don’t really care how lazy or otherwise people are if it’s a private business, but I do object to state-funded employers not ensuring their staff are putting the necessary hours in.

I also think that no one who has to speak to customers should work from home. I’m sick of being on hold for an eternity to speak to some uninformed junior, who can’t ask for advice because their manager is in another city, and who is barely audible above the noise of kids playing in the background!

Maybe because the majority of the " working population" are not in offices never mind 5 days a week.

Bet you'd kick up a fuss if your taxi driver suddenly decides to stop for a tea break. Or the surgeon during an op. Or checkout person leaving no one at till etc

I’m browsing MN just now whilst WFH

Im having some down time to relax between meetings.

Im quite comfortable and confident about my productivity.

People who criticise WFH are either

jealous
dinosaurs with outdated views on work
rather junior who don’t really understand
SAHP who want the DPs out from under their feet

I agree with you. What I'm finding difficult now is the isolation as I've been WFH for over 15 years (divorced 10 years).
I volunteer once a week and support my teenagers and we have a happy home. I do miss adult conversation though.
I go into the office once a week but everyone there is a hot desker as our company has shut down so many offices.
I feel like I'm in a rut. I am learning so much at work in relation to AI and the technology behind it (I am a coder) and would love to share my thoughts with people e.g. my love/hate of AI!
I've recently turned to mumsnet as I like the chatter and authentic nature of the conversations. I am time poor but would love to meet other like minded people once a month at the very least.
sorry - I've gone off on a tangent here...

Well yes because this is a discussion about WFH, which doesn't apply to the jobs you've listed.

I think it depends on the role, or maybe what the person commenting thinks the role is.

My job is similar to yours OP in that sometimes its manic, sometimes it is quieter, and as long as the work is done by the deadline it is no drama. In those kind of roles, people take the time when they can get it and it’s a bit of a trade off with my role that when it is manic the expectation is you really knuckle down, often doing extra hours/working lunches, and then in the quieter spells you get that time back to yourself.

Some people WFH though in call centre style jobs where actually them doing the extra stuff during the work day has a direct impact on clients/customers who then spend an extra hour in a call queue or have to wait extra time for a resolution, usually in my experience those are the situations people complain about.