AIBU To celebrate the government finally releasing guidance on keeping single sex spaces single sex? Even if it is more than a year after the Supreme Court judgement

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

Nobody is banned from toilets, changing rooms or indeed anywhere else, but males must use the male facilities and females use the female facilities. Where possible gender neutral facilities may be provided AS WELL, but not instead of.

There will be a huge amount of disinformation about this rolling around today, but nobody is banned from anything, other than intruding upon the opposite sex.

"The updated guidance is expected to make clear that employers and service providers should provide single-sex lavatories, changing rooms and washing facilities on the basis of biological sex, after the Supreme Court judgment in April last year that held the legal ­definition of “woman” in the Equality Act referred to biological sex."

https://www.thetimes.com/article/b0750d21-426a-45d5-8cee-9578e33c6d9c?shareToken=a2e55a09e70500c14807d8eb1713db03

So, when you say "Because people on MN want to say that most trans identifying men are sex offenders. It doesn’t work so well when the teenage girls wanting to be boys gets mentioned", you are talking about some random couple of people and not actually what many people think at all?

It would be a false claim to make that "most trans identifying men are sex offencers", but please do go and find the many examples that must support your generalisation.

What is more likely is that some posters will point out that any male person over the age of about 8 years old are accessing female single sex provisions in the UK when they should not be. And many of those male people accessing those female single sex provisions in the UK, do so knowing that they are excluded from them and it is highly likely that they understand that they shouldn't and that there may be some female people there who might be distressed by a male person's presence there. Even if that female person doesn't show their distress.

Just on female to male transition, people forget that it was the Tavistock itself that raised that the number of young girls transitioning to men was unusual, and were concerned at the impact of mysogyny on those decisions back in 2016: "It's quite hard work to come to our clinic. We put them through an assessment process and none of these young people are doing this lightly.
"But we do need to consider whether there are some ways in which being male and having a male body is particularly attractive in 2016, the beginning of the 21st Century, whether there are any ways in which the social landscape shapes and influences how people feel about their role in life, their body and how they're going to live in that body for the rest of their lives."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36010664

The Tavistock were also feeling their way blind when it came to treating kids who were presenting with gender dysphoria. There's a great podcast about it by Tortoise: https://open.spotify.com/show/0W0PoVdgzIHbwcFdV9tpZD?si=Z5f5KFnNSxiB3DwEXoxt3Q

This is just false. Feminists here are extremely concerned with what is being done to girls in the name of this ideology.

Read Hannah Barnes
Read Abigail Shrier
Look up Keira Bell
Watch Vaishnavi Sundar's excellent 4 part documentary
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRU9NIX0AA143z2QKukQcOqS96qriKGyw

possibly before, I should think it can leak easily now

Gods, I hope so!

Timing of this is interesting after the Burnham debacle. But hey ho, who cares, so long as it is FINALLY published ,

it's been laid, this morning. already BUT not published until after 1730

Would expect it to leak before then though

Timing with holidays and other stuff means I suspect it might just disappear politically if we are lucky

Yes if it takes Labour infighting so be it. Well done to all the women getting us here. Much appreciated.

https://x.com/akuareindorf/status/2057383720898703443

Listen out for me on
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Code of Practice

Will this have any impact on the City of London’s decision to keep the women’s bathing pond accessible to trans women (so men)? That made me so bloody cross. There’s a man’s pond, a mixed pond and now a second mixed pond. Fuck us women, eh?

I don't know if it's still the case, but the rape counselling service in my town used to have a male service, a trans service, and a female service (which included transwomen), so men had the option of three different services (including a single-sex one), but women who needed single-sex had none. Absolutely infuriating.

Maybe we could send all policy writers off for training on a "Due Course". Like buying them a Round Tuit. 😉

The line of least resistance for the university as the ladies is the one that the trans people predominantly want to use.

I'm assuming that the men aren't bothered one way or the other as to who uses theirs so it's still in situ.

Because people on MN want to say that most trans identifying men are sex offenders.

I don’t think anyone on MN has said this, though you’re not the first to assert it. I bet you can’t find any evidence to back up this claim.

It doesn’t work so well when the teenage girls wanting to be boys gets mentioned

Posters on FWR are consistently concerned and dismayed about the extraordinary increase in the numbers of these girls, and the physical and emotional harms caused.

I don’t think you can have been reading with any attention.

I know a lot of men who feel deeply uncomfortable with women (whether they're transmen or just women who skip the queue by going to the men's), who feel very uncomfortable with it and hate going anywhere where there's unisex toilets.

Obviously, they don't feel threatened liek women do, but they certainly don't like it. This is all ages of men from 20s to 80s. My grandad, in particular, was horrified when he came face to face with a woman in a restaurant loo recently!

It is almost certainly illegal though. It means the men have access to much more provision (all of it) than women (half of it) and if they need single-sex provision at all they'd have to make a case for why it's a "proportionate means to a legitimate end" that the men need single-sex provision while women don't.

I freely admit it is professional speak for "I can't be bothered dealing with this, or be willing to put my name to a date for completion.". There was a lot of that (still is) in HE finance and audit.

I have moved on to private sector now, but the tactics are roughly the same, just called something different. Honestly, the things we have to agree to just to make a living...😬

They've not thought it through, just "solved" what they see as their immediate problem. I'm just guessing though.

Amidst all the meaningless cries of ‘transphobia’ people forget that until recent years, women were the ones most likely to support trans identifying males. Generally we’re the ones brought up to ‘be kind’ and don’t tend to go around kicking the shit out of people we don’t like - it’s violent males who do that. I know I felt sympathy for the males I know who felt they were ‘born in the wrong body’. It was only when the trans rights agenda achieved things like males in women’s sport, men in women’s prisons and refuges and the transing of children (to name but a few examples) that woman have pushed back. Hell, they’ve even tried to change the language so that the word ‘woman’ no longer means ‘adult human female’.

We’ve pushed back because we have lost important things due to this ideology. The world has become more physically dangerous to us. Some of us have lost jobs, reputations, friends and family members. A lot of us are spending what money we can on funding court cases, and there are women whose entire lives have been upended because a tiny percentage of the population want to say they can change sex. None of this has happened because we have some sort of personal objections to men wearing dresses or calling themselves Sally, but because we still need our stuff, for ourselves, the same as we always have. Many of us would have supported trans people in campaigning for their own spaces, but that bridge is burnt now. So here we find ourselves in 2026 waiting for our weaselly fucking government to confirm that sex is biological, and it’s utterly ridiculous.

Individual cubicles really don't make the most sense. Look at the many posts by KeepToiletsSafe, some of which are on this thread, to see why - primarily safety for people who have medical conditions, or are attacked in these enclosed spaces.

But also, men piss on the seats, take used sanpro out of bins to masturbate into, masturbate on seats, install cameras... I don't want to use the same cubicles as men, thank you very much.

Still no leak of the text... should get it by the end of the day though :)

Christ alive I am sorry for the actions of some men. awful

There’s some really weird stuff that goes on in toilets. That’s why a lot of provision has closed. Some of the cleaners’ stories are horrifying.

THE CODE HAS BEEN RELEASED https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532766-ehrc-code-of-practice-on-services-public-functions-and-associations-has-been-laid-here-is-the-code-itself

Hurrah it’s here at last