AIBU to think people should not be online if they cannot handle being challenged?

[WastingTimeNotDrinkingWine]

I was reading on Reddit about the latest MN spin-off and I do get why people are fed up.

MN can be grim. The name-changing feature is a double-edged sword, and some posters clearly use it to be vile, vanish, then come back polished and innocent. There is plenty of extreme views knocking about too.

But another "less bitchy women's forum"? Come on.

Maybe MN has not "become" anything. Maybe it just reflects the mood everywhere now - sharper, more direct, more political and less patient.

These spin-offs always seem to start with earnest chat about the good old days and how forums used to be before everything got so nasty. Then they end up as twenty people agreeing with each other and wondering why it is dead.

I'm not sure hiding from reality is the brave alternative people think it is. If you go online, especially on a discussion forum, surely part of that is accepting that people will disagree with you. Sometimes bluntly.

Cute idea. Doubt it will last.

AIBU to feel this way?

Sorry OP I don't know what you mean by
MN spin offs. Could you please explain?

Like mouldies?

These little groups dont tend to last long but it's not hurting anyone. If people want a gentle little club then fair enough. Seems reasonable to me that if you don't like a site and want something different that you should create it.

I think if people can’t cope with being disagreed with then they shouldn’t go outside, let alone online.

Being able to have an argument is a basic adult skill.

Being resilient is an increasingly valuable adult skill.

It’s ok to be upset, angry, annoyed, offended and insulted.

Feeling that way doesn't make you “unsafe” and it isn’t an attack on your mental health - it’s just part of the normal human experience.

Spin offs?

I don't know anything about spin-offs. I agree that a significant minority of posters on here have clearly never been disagreed with robustly. I don't mean anyone being bitchy or rude, I just mean someone saying, bluntly, 'No, you are wrong about that, and here's the proof.' For some people who clearly live in an echo chamber where their circle just say 'Oh, yes', that's the equivalent of being knocked down and run over repeatedly.

Echo chambers are not forums of debate and exchanges of ideas. They are back packing self congratulatory bullshit which a problem in their own ways.

Being challenged - fine, that’s not what happens on here the vast majority of the time though. People are nasty to others because they are anonymous.

It works the other way round too.

Post after post of people who get them tangled up in all sorts of complications because they can’t say “no” or who lose friendships because that can’t raise issues in a clear and sensible way, they find it easier to cut the person off than say “please stop doing xyz it’s inconvenient/upsetting/rude”

I've been challenged on here lots - sometimes people have good points, sometimes people are just being angry and hate that you have a different view and think they can take you down a peg or two.

I always listen, I don't always agree, sometimes I do - I mean this is the online version of the fora of old isn't it? When people got together in Greece or Rome to debate ideas. The only issue with that is that some people often don't seem to know the rules around debate, they either get horribly offended or swear at you.

I think the issue is that people really and truly don't know anymore how to have a challenging conversation. I know how to do it 80% of the time until someone becomes really offensive and stupid. Then I should step back, but I don't always when I am cross and kind of want to let rip. Challenging conversations is a really big life skill. I don't know anything about spin offs however.

I didn’t know people went on Reddit to talk shit about Mumsnet. How Meta 😂

I do think it’s misogynistic to spout about MN being bitchy though. Some male centred forums can be utterly vile with bullying and nobody calls them ‘bitchy’.

I dont understand your op 😭

Sometimes I do feel that the people harassing me are posters ive interacted with on other threads, who've name changed and then come to complain about my beloved gifs

I think it's fine to set up your own forum. I can't see a problem with it.

I had a robust conversation in real life that spilled over from online interaction. A friend and I disagreed with whether a wider 'we' group had done as much as it could in a certain area. We disagreed and found a common ground that we could agree on and what we could do about it. It was uncomfortable but necessary. You can't just shy away from difficult conversations because they are anxiety inducing. Of course it was difficult. We fundamentally disagreed with each other. But we respectfully listened and agreed with what we could do in future, regardless of whether 'enough' had been done in the past.

People are perfectly happy to be rude to strangers on the internet and hide behind aliases on Facebook groups (I ALWAYS find those being rude about my efforts in the area are from anonymous accounts) but don't like criticism directed back at them.

I’m not sure how true that is.

I try to be polite in disagreeing with other posters and would never say anything on here that I wouldnt say in real life. I’ve been accused of all sorts of things over the years, by posters who entirely mistook my tone or made incorrect assumptions about my intentions.

Of course there are some very rude posters but MN is quite good at quickly dealing with reports of people breaking talk guidelines.

People are more polarised on politics than they were certainly but in nearly 20 years on MN I don’t otherwise see much difference.

Not everyone wants a barney on the internet. Some people just want to chat to others. Not sure what's wrong with that?

What does it matter? The internet is a big place.

This is me, i'm just here for the chat

I was first on MN in 2009 and there were plenty of posts then about how it had become shitty and it never used to be.

Then over the years seen other posters claim they'd started in 2010-2026 and it never used to be like this.

It always was in my experience from 2009, I think it's just that familiarity breeds contempt and people see what they see at the time.

When you're first here or even for a few months, you focus on all the helpful productive stuff, the fun and the community and then after a while you get more and more irritated by things and don't find things as funny as you used to.

You get jaded and think MN changed but it really didn't, it just got bigger so more of the problems that were always there become more evident and you start thinking 'this again!' and then start posting that on threads and get piled on for it and it goes round and round.

It never was this amazing place full of intelligent. witty women which is the oft-repeated quote about 'when this was all fields'. It was always just loads of different people, some intelligent, some witty and others not. And it just got bigger so if there were not-intelligent, not-witty posts, they became more obvious.

Agree @ForLimeCat. I joined in 2011 when I was pregnant, because I'd googled something to do with childbirth, and Mn was among the first things that came up on Google, and literally the first post I clicked on outside of the Pregnancy board was someone complaining about how things weren't the way they used to be.

I also don't know anything about any spin-offs but I've never used Reddit.

I do specifically remember when people used to insult other posters by saying pop back off to net huns. Was that a spin off? I don't think I've seen that for a while now though.

I don't really understand why this actually bothers you.

If you don't want to use other forums, simply don't use them. Mumsnet obviously works for you, so stick with it. But why is it annoying to you that other people might prefer to chat somewhere else? It's not like Mumsnet is going to be taken away from you just because other forums exist.

I also 'people should not be online if they can't handle being challenged' is a ridiculous thing to say. Not everyone wants to spend their leisure time arguing with strangers, and that's absolutely fine. Most people don't hang out with a bunch of people they can't stand and constantly argue with in real life, so there's no reason why they should feel obliged to do that in virtual spaces either.

'Online' doesn't equal 'a place for debate where everyone's voice must always be heard regardless of whether you're interested'. Certainly, that is what some online spaces are for. But there are also many places online that are not for that.

People can be 'online' in any way they want to be. Being 'online' doesn't mean you're obliged to have random strangers needling you and demanding a debate when what you actually want is a pleasant chat that feels more like a conversation with a bunch of your mates.

Saying 'people should not be online if they cannot handle being challenged' is a bit like saying 'people shouldn't go out for lunch if they cannot handle sharing a table with an unpleasant stranger' or 'people shouldn't have a television if they aren't prepared to watch every channel' or 'people shouldn't use the library if they refuse to read every genre of book'.

Lol, you love it though 😉

And watching them get riled when you call the women on here 'girl' 🤣

The irony of making a post about how people who don't want to be challenged shouldn't be be online while simultaneously getting your knickers in a twist because some people on Reddit criticised Mumsnet 😂

I just joined a couple of FB groups which are mostly Americans. Jeez these people make MN look like baby stuff!

I have to say, I see this too and it really tickles me how riled up @mumofoneAloneandwell gets them with the gifs and 'girl' 😂.