To think that the next election will be Reform v Greens and we need hard hats to survive?

[Noras]

I just want a stable country and would take any political party with middle of the ground policies. I wish that KS had been left to get on with things. I did not like some policies eg NI increases and additional taxes on rental income but so be it. As long as the economy could be stable and grow we can overcome that. Instead we have a party that had a large majority now in Civil War. KS can only give away but not reduce spending and as a consequence, taxes have risen hugely eg via fiscal drag or on non working (investment) income tax .

I want to see a government with a clear plan to increase productivity and make us more successful as a country.

instead Reform and Greens offer none of that but this is our future, shudder!

When did democracy ever mean that a country can't change its mind? If that were so we wouldn't have elections at all, apart from the very first one.

We need a proper centrist government - I can’t bear the Greens ie, Gaza party and Reform are just beyond the pale.
Labour are weak and although I like Kemi as a person I’m not a right-wing Tory.
Im a trad Labour voter but actually voted Torybin the local elections because Labour made a moronic decision on a local issue and effectively chucked £1m down the toilet.

Well the mockery will continue when the complex negotiations take place. We are already a laughing stock. In any case, Streeting is using rejoining to take support away from Burnham.

Fair point - she did only last thirteen years and three elections, and go down in history as possibly the most historically important prime minister of the post war period. So she clearly can't be held up as an example of what would get the British people's vote, the way any of our recent "prime ministerial speed dating" candidates can. 😀

😆 🤣 😂 😹

Reform seem to despise anyone working a job that isn’t in the private sector, so they won’t be getting my vote. The Green Party isn’t really the Green party. They are being exploited by people who are out to promote sectarian based politics which is very dangerous. Yes, Labour and the Tories haven’t performed well, but they are a lot better than what we could end up with.

Personally I will be voting Conservative.

Farage didn’t secure enough share of the vote in the local elections to have a majority of MP’s - very likely 28-30% of the vote (if it was the same)

So the Tories would likely go into coalition with Reform 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

which of course would be fucking terrible

If they get elected with that in the manifesto it wouldn’t be a mockery at all. It would show that it’s what people want.

Is your post meant to be ironic?

I'm wondering if the people of Clacton will see that Farage has done absolutely nothing for them and vote him out next time.

Apparently he doesn;t hold any surgeries in his constituency, hasn't voted on any key issues in Parliament and his declaration of other interests and trips show how much he's being payrolled (I mean we'd all love an all-expenses paid 'humanitarian aid mission' to the Maldives or passes to go to the F! in UAE,wouldn;t we? ). If I was campaigning against him I'd just print out his entry on 'they work for you' and circulate it

Not sure how you read it like that. It’s just factual. If a party runs an election campaign on rejoining the EU and wins, then it’s democratic to rejoin the EU as that’s what the electorate voted for.

I believe what is being proposed is another referendum on re joining the EU - not just doing it according to one person's wishes.

According to the Telegraph, Andy Burnham and Wes Streeting would both seek a mandate to rejoin the European Union if they were elected Labour Party leader...

The last prediction I saw for the next GE was a Refrom majority with a Tory opposition.

I am like you OP, would prefer the centre ground to be covered with a strong opposition that isn’t ideologically opposed to the main party. Having a Reform majority with a Green opposition (or vice versa) would be a recipe for disaster

What-so we stay poor for in perpetuity due to our fear of being mocked?

That's not what she said though.

Diane Abbots exact words in the Observer article were that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people "undoubtedly experience prejudice", which she said is "similar to racism".
She continued: "It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice.
"But they are not all their lives subject to racism.

That would clearly imply that anti semitism is not as bad as racism, because in her words racism is something that victims suffer from their entire lives where in her words that is not the case with anti semitism.

God I hope not. I think that the most important thing at the next election is to keep out the far right (and the far left but I don’t hate them as much as the far right 🙄).

I don’t know why anyone still has any faith that any government we have will do as they’ve said they would. All of them are untrustworthy and liars. Politically I’m homeless they’re all awful.

I am hoping that a lot can change in the 2 to 3 years before the next election.

All I ask for is no more turmoil and peace so that businesses can make money etc. I would prefer a Government run by those who had been in business themselves. Unless we have stability we won’t get houses built or investment for jobs. Reform will collapse the economy in 6 months.

I think that the central role of a government is to facilitate wealth creation which they can tax to a degree to redistribute wealth to the vulnerable / use it for security/to create more growth.

The issue with Labour is that the backbenchers went along with the manifesto to get into power and then voted against it which is duplicitous. As a consequence KS could not implement his policies and looked weak. He should have ensured those in power with him agreed to the manifesto. This is why his Gov fragmented in less than 2 years. Anyone now from Labour getting into power and not sticking it that manifesto will be ruling without an effective mandate so will be weakened. This is what happened to the Tories. With Labour, in essence the party was too left of its own manifesto/ leader.

However the centralist policies is what people voted for along with stability ie do something to tackle the boat people/ pretend students to appease the right but the real concern is the economy.

All I hear is Labour in reaction now wanting to go further left. They are not addressing the concerns on immigration and ignoring the crazy marches there is a debate to be had. By failing to address this they are fermenting more anger and this means not getting on with the job of increasing productivity etc. The Boris Wave is a thing and can’t be brushed under the carpet. It would be fairer to address each concern fully rather than ignore it and blame it all on the failures of capitalism. This is treating those on the Right in a condescending way and that got us Brexit ( which for me was a disaster as I am half European).

So to recap we need a middle of the ground central party that addresses RW concerns / straddles the various divides but its main aim is to create wealth and prosperity. How do we get that?

Great post. I agree that what we want for the good of the country is a centrist party. The fact that none of the political parties appear to offer that is why so many voters these days describe themselves as “politically homeless “.

I feel politically homeless but also feel as a feminist that I should exercise my right to vote. I don’t even know who I would vote for at the next GE - probably whichever leader appeared to be the most centrist. Which was Starmer at the last GE and will very possibly be Kemi at the next one if the Labour party move further to the Left than they are under Starmer. Which they seem determined to do unfortunately, despite the local elections suggesting the general mood is more inclined to right of centre politics.

How is Kemi 'Centrist', she's right of right and backed Brexit? She said she no longer wanted centrist ideas were no longer wanted in the Conservative party in a speech in January of this year. This was when the deflections to Reform were happening so she was presumably trying to appeal to Reform voters.

@Goldenbear She's centre right nor right right. The more right wing members of the Conservative party have mainly defected to Reform now.

Kemi has never supported Reform at all and has said the Conservative party will not be doing a deal with them ahead of the Makerfield by-election.

Yes she backed Brexit which was a mistake, but none of the political leaders have unblemished records as far as I'm concerned. I like that she's very clear in her stance and doesn't mind speaking up on controversial issues. For example,
she takes a very tough stance on antisemitism despite knowing that will be unpopular with many voters. So she's not trying to please everyone, which I think was Starmer's mistake.

Nevertheless, I don't expect him to be perfect either and would also consider voting for him if he is still Leader of the Labour party at that point and still maintaining a position I consider not to be too far Left.

Picking up on your point about people voting reform due to misguided thinking that local councillors will " sort out the boats ", I think this too about the greens. Why oh why do people think voting green locally, will have any impact on the situation in Gaza? The number of candidates standing on a Palestine ticket is ridiculous. You're absolutely right, we should be thinking of send provision, bin collections and potholes ....but the point remains, it cuts all ways. One group of voters is belittled and demonised for their choices, yet another gets away with similarly ill informed decision making because they're deemed to be on the ' right' side and therefore, virtuous. It's glaringly classist. And yes, I too loathe farage.

YABU

Theres three years til the next election and everything can change
Labour do need to raise their game, especially PR/ social media wise, as do the Tories.

I actually think the OP's desire for centrist stability and business as usual is a deep expression of denial, and won't be satisfied by any party because it simply contradicts the facts of our historical moment.

Capitalism is failing, all over the world. It is creating obscene levels of inequality which not only hold back the living standards of many, but place ridiculous amounts of economic power - and by extension political power - in the hands of a very few. It is thus entering a stage in which it becomes directly contrary to the demands of democracy.

Automation and AI are rendering human labour obsolete, but we have no plan in place, or even the philosophical basis for one, to deal with what life and society will mean when that's the case. People still sound off about the welfare bill etc. as though full employment is a valid and reasonable goal if individuals only had the work ethic.

Climate change gallops on apace and most countries are falling woefully short of the structural changes they need to make to address it. We're going to have to get used to having less, using less, travelling less. But our metrics of societal "success" are still based on GDP growth so any government that faces up to this reality will automatically be seen as a failure.

People aren't rejecting centrism just because they're bored and want something a bit more fun. They're rejecting it because it no longer works. It's stopped improving most people's lives and it doesn't contain the answers to the challenges we currently face. That shouldn't be so shocking - human society goes through such crises every so often, like when feudalism didn't contain the answers to the challenges posed by industrialisation.

We should be vigorously proposing, scrutinizing and debating alternatives (not least because in the absence of doing so, lazy and dishonest ones will fill the vacuum to serve the interests of the likes of Farage, at everyone else's expense), not pretending we can carry on in a "stable" social and economic order that is patently anything but.