Have you ever met a child psychopath?

[TheJuryIsOut]

There's some debate about whether psychopaths are born like that or made as a consequence of their environment/upbringing. If they are born that way (which I believe they are) have you ever met one? What were the signs?

I say this because there is a child in my wider family who I think may be a psychopath, there has been signs from when he was very very young and as he moves through his teenage years things have only got worse. I can't get on board with it being an environment thing as no one else in the family behaves the way he does, it's quite terrifying to think that no matter what you do your child could still go on to do horrific things and not feel a jot of guilt.

What do you think? Are they born or made?

Do you honestly believe children commit horrendous offences out of the blue and with no explanation behind it?

What do you suggest we do with children who commit offences of you don't believe the staff and therapists working with them should try to understand them?

If I remember correctly, Thompson had a chaotic childhood but Venables came from a supposedly stable family environment. Nothing has ever been heard of Thompson so the assumption is that he has abided by the terms of his release.
Enables on the other hand has blown his own cover more than once and been recalled to jail. Not sure if he is still incarcerated but I hope so!!

Of course they are born. But some can thankfully control their impulses, if not get rid of them. I had a school mate, who used to confide, to my horror, her feelings - like 'when I am walking with my nan, i have this urge to trip her up and see if she cracks her head open when she falls. I know it is a bad, wicked thought, but I am still having it'. She controlled her impulses well when I knew her. She was saying she felt like placing a pillow over her baby brother's head, an urge, she said. She said she had this urge, that she suppressed, to hurt animals and people and see what happens. As I said, she controlled these urges well, she recognised them as evil and she confessed to our priest, who I think had talks with her and she never harmed anyone. But she was definitely born a psychopath and she knew it.

I think it's very likely a combination of nature and nurture, probably a strong genetic component that makes the person more susceptible to environmental factors. No child would be diagnosed as a psychopath but would usually have a history of destructive and damaging behaviours and often diagnosed with conduct disorders in childhood.

ACEs were withdrawn a few years ago because labelling kids as being fucked for life with no prospects is quite damaging to kids.

The trauma is absolutely a thing but ACEs are harmful.

Well your softly, softly.approach did nothing for John venables, who manipulated every 'professional' and went on to be a sex offender.

Nobody is saying it’s a switch. What they mean is that it is not possible to tell with a child under 18. Therefore, you cannot say you have met a child psychopath because nobody can say whether they are one or not.

There are many other reasons that can cause similar behaviours. If a psychiatrists can’t tell with a child under 18 you definitely can’t.

Yes. Many high achievers in business, in politics, all corners of life often have psychopathic or sociopathic tendencies.

I find this thought provoking: "Heredity loads the gun, environment fires it"

Heavily disagree. And we need to remember that psychology isn't a science. They also change their criteria regularly. Homosexuality used to be a mental illness according to their 'science'. They recently kept quiet during the trans fad, agreeing not to carry out due diligence before mutilating children's genitals, and Asperger's is no longer a thing. Etc.

You'll have to forgive me for trusting psychology as much as I trust the church.

I have worked with many hundreds of young people, in a variety of settings, and you can absolutely see where someone's brain isn't wired correctly. I'm surprised we don't use technology to test for this early on to help them. Not to mention the conflicting criteria of 'hurting animals as a child' so yes, whatever the medical reason someone cannot empathise with other humans: that would naturally be true from birth. I don't doubt there could be other ways to become a sociopath, but I am certain being born one is possible.

Most teachers could give you the name of at least one or two children who would raise concerns. My friend is a teacher for a small group of teenagers with quite severe emotional an/or personality disorders. She can handle anything and anyone, but there’s someone in her class at the moment that gives her the chills and she has been told explicitly by her manager never to be alone with them. She fully expects to see them on the news for some awful crime in the future.

I read somewhere that as much as 3% (I think?) of the population are psychopaths. But this type of personality disorder wouldn’t compel the inflicted to seek a diagnosis in the first place so I would like to understand where that figure comes from. I try and hope there is very little chance of me ever meeting a psychopath as I don’t run in those circles!

Where did I say I excused it? Understanding how something happened if different from being in support of it.

That sounds more like the intrusive thoughts manifestation of OCD to me.

That sounds more like intrusive thoughts, it's not only psychopaths who have thoughts like that.

Not all psychopaths are violent. Some of them end up doing your surgery and running the country. So you probably have met a child with a tendency towards psychopathy in adulthood, but they are driven in other ways than violence.

Look into Dr James Fallon, the late neuroscientist, whose research into psychopathy involved looking at brain scans to detect low orbital cortex activity, a pattern often seen in aggressive psychopaths and murderers. He scanned his own brain and discovered he was also a psychopath. Apart from a certain coldness and detachment, he displayed no signs of this condition, and attributed his close and loving family to his "normalcy".

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

I don't know but my friend works with children aged 3-4. She's had a couple of children she would not be a bit surprised to read about in the papers in 20 years time.

No. Because no child would ever be diagnosed. It’s only when a psychopath does something, as an adult, that medics look at the past. Mainly to see if it’s nature or nurture.

This. It’s an initial neurodivergence imo that can be exacerbated by their experience as developing children. So their brain means they lack empathy, certain emotions like guilt etc but they can still have a really good childhood that means they’re almost trained into behaving like a run of the mill person with ASPD due to lots of love and support and specific care rather than a Dahmer. Or they have a terrible childhood and become inhuman through a combo of trauma, ND and their parents specific abuse or neglect.

This is just an opinion of course. I’m not an expert or studying ASPD.

I remember watching his documentary, it was fascinating.

There’s a bit of an unfortunate perception that all psychopaths are the sadistic, bloodthirsty type, probably as those are the ones we see represented in films. Psychopaths can lead relatively normal, functional lives as surgeons, stock brokers, racing drivers etc. Careers where traits such as emotional detachment, risk taking, relentless competitiveness etc are assets. I suppose they might still come across as unpleasant / ruthless, but they aren't dangerous.

The consensus among experts, of which I am not one, seems to be that the big risk comes when this nature is accompanied by a trouble upbringing or other personality disorders.
Richard Kulinski (The Ice Man), for example. A psychopath with paranoia, ASPD and a violent mother and father. A recipe for disaster.

It’s fascinating. If I’d been a touch better at science I’d have gone into criminal psychology for sure.

But you won’t know it necessarily.
They can be someone’s sister, brother etc. Work colleague.
A statistician will be able to explain the 3% and how that is arrived at.

I went to school with the man who went on to murder a Swedish politician. He bullied me at school when I was about 9 and he was about 11. He had obvious cruel leanings and very few friends. I don't know what his background was, home life etc, that meant he had those leanings but I remember feeling a chill go down me when I first heard about the murder he committed.

I’m sure I listened to a podcast once that said in a functioning society, you do need a handful of individuals to take up some of the roles you mention in your first paragraph. That was quite interesting.

The way a brain is wired is almost entirely developed post-birth though. Neuron connections only start being developed in the last few weeks of pregnancy, and are mainly developed in the first 5 years of life in response to the baby's care and environment. The development of empathy is absolutely part of this.

People think of children being born with a fully finished brain, that's predefined, but that simply isn't in line with our current understanding of brain development.