To exclude sibling from wedding due to their lifestyle choice?

[Salitnan]

This will be incredibly identifying to anyone who knows my family and quite controversial but it’s such a bloody niche situation that nobody can relate to and it’s hugely stressing me out. I’m not writing this as ragebait or to troll, it is a genuine situation I am dealing with.

I’m getting married next year. My partner of 5 years is from a very traditional, right-wing Eastern European country. My partner however is very tolerant and chill, as are most of his immediate family who also live in Western countries.

We’ve decided to get married in his home country, as it’s very affordable there and we can have a beautiful package in an area of outstanding natural beauty, and he can invite his dear godparents who he adores (and they adore him) who are scared of flying.

This is all well and good but one of my family members is presenting an issue. My brother (who is an adult in their mid-20s) has a learning disability. This is not a problem, but in the past year they have come out as transgender. This has been a massive struggle for us as there were no signs previously and it came out of nowhere, and they have insisted they are going ahead with the transition and they self-harm if anyone misgenders them or politely reminds them of etiquette in public places regarding toilets, or wearing appropriate clothing for a social situation etc. It has been extremely hard work for my aging parents, he lives with them full time. The learning disability alongside being transgender makes them massively vulnerable and they get stared at in public and often started on when in the city centre by lads, and they aren’t aware of their vulnerability. They insist on dressing incredibly provocatively (wig and heels, provocative clothes) as they say they feel insecure otherwise, and when I have tried to explain to them that women don’t necessarily dress like that, they self-harm. They insult people in public, not to their face, they will say it to my mum (will whisper in her ear “he looks like a twat”), but sometimes people have overheard and started on him and my mum has had to explain about his disability and fend them off.

I’m already in therapy to deal with complex feelings towards them from how they dominate my parents lives and how I felt neglected as a child due to the focus on them and their vulnerabilities. The recent coming out as transgender has brought up a lot of old resentment I had towards him which I had buried, and I’m trying to have the therapy so that I can have a bond with him going forward, but I can’t help but feel a sort of anger at him, and I hate myself for it.

Back onto the wedding topic - I’ve realised I simply don’t want them at the wedding. My fiancé’s family are nice people and wouldn’t be a danger to my brother but many of my fiancé’s extended family members are from a small isolated village in a Catholic Eastern European country and he will be stared at like a hawk, whispered about. To he quite frank he will stick out like a sore thumb with his clothes and hair. As awful as it sounds I will be embarrassed by him and on edge, and won’t be able to enjoy my day. My partner says he’ll notify everyone in advance that my brother will be there and what to expect but I just really can’t be doing with the stress of it all. It’s not just family it’s the the staff in the hotel, other members of the public around who might be drinking, and they will need to stay in the country a few days around the ceremony so lots of opportunity for things to go wrong. They have severe social anxiety due to their learning disability and have been known to sneak alcohol as a way to deal with this and this further increases their vulnerability as they lose their filter and say their mind in front of people.

I did try to compromise and said to my mum I’d be happy to have them if if they would be willing to tone down their dress in order to come to the wedding - dropping the wig and toning down their clothes, but they have become angry at this suggestion and have refused.

I’ve told my mum it may be the case that I can’t invite them, and therefore my parents can’t come either as they are his carers. My mum says she understands and we can have a do later on back in the UK.

I just want my day to not be dominated by him. I also don’t want to have to change the wedding plans that me and my partner are happy with just to suit him. Am I an awful person?

I'd much rather exclude someone for their safety and that of other people than have them potentially locked up in a prison in another country far from home.

She cannot exclude a huge number of her husband's family from her wedding just because 1 person is going to create issues. This isn't a situation where you can have a nice sensory room with quiet music for when things get a bit much.

So sorry to read this OP. Could you have a very simple ceremony in the registry office in the UK attended by your immediate family, and have the more traditional wedding in your partner’s country without the legal bit? My wedding didn’t have anywhere near the complexity of yours, but this is the compromise we made - we had a simple wedding in a registry office in the UK in front of immediate family, and then we had the elaborate wedding we wanted in Scotland.

Or get married in your partner’s country as planned and have a small celebration at home when it get back.

Also it doesn’t sound like it would be safe for your sibling either if they are easily triggered to self harm. You can’t protect them from all people all day - I would frame it in those terms.

No?

It isn't appalling to bring up the Southport atrocities. While an extreme example of course, it shows an extreme case of what happens when we minimise or try and make excuses for violent behaviour.

I've worked for LD for 20 years and spent some of that working with people who displayed violent behaviour. And while the behaviour might have been caused by the disability, it was never excused or tolerated or just brushed aside because they had a disability. Enormous resources went into trying to manage and risk assess for the behaviour, often with multiple professionals. It was never a case of they've got a disability, so the violent behaviour is okay.

Sometimes that meant the risk was too great that they couldn't attend certain events. And in very extreme cases, yes they were locked in a pyshciatric ward for the safety of themselves and others.

No one advocates for people with a LD to be locked away. But if we want to live in a society that is tolerant and inclusive then that includes a zero tolerance approach to violence and in particular violence against women and children. It doesn't matter whether that person has a disability or not, the violence is still unacceptable and has to be dealt with and managed.

This is my thought too. I have an ND child with very complex needs. As much as we’d like everyone to be inclusive, the reality is that even when they try it doesn’t always work and there’s an awful lot we have to miss out on as a family. But his overall wellbeing is more important than trying to force him to activities that can’t meet his needs however much they try. I would never expose my child the risk of ridicule.

OP have the wedding you want. It doesn’t sound like your family would enjoy attending to be honest. Is is fine to celebrate with your family later in a way that is safe for your sibling.

You poor lass @Salitnan. I got married in another country to prevent certain members of my family ruining the day and then we had a party at home when we got back.

It allowed the wedding day to be calm and happy, and by the time the party came round I didn't need it to be special, or not spoilt, as we'd already had the "main event" for the two of us.

As others have suggested, do this the other way round - the two of you get married in your husband-to-be's country and enjoy that. Then have a small get-together at home that your brother can't spoil, or only minimally so. Everyone gets some part of the celebrations, the manipulation will be a lot less of an issue without an audience and you can relax and enjoy the wedding day itself, which is the important bit.

Given your updates about your brother's recent behavior at the crazy golf centre, @Salitnan, it doesn't sound as if he's currently well enough to attend your wedding regardless of where it takes place. Even a very small do in the UK would be too stressful for him and your parents.

And it sounds like your sibling has always been put first by your parents and your whole lives have revolved around their disability.

It’s absolutely fine to put yourself and your needs first too. For your wedding of all days. I would let go of any feeling you have for your family to have to be there for the legal part or the party - the day should be whatever you want it to be. Have a special day with them later - if they really love you they should agree.

@Gloriia

Thats good 😊

I said it was institutional failure that's recognised and I have absolutely clarified this. You are lying through your teeth to twist things once again.

Lalala flying monkeys.

This thread is about a wedding and a disabled man with behavioural issues yet you keep mentioning an atrocity where young girls were murdered.

You can do lalala/ flying monkeys all you like but we can all see what you posted and how these 2 situations are not remotely related. Do show some sensitivity.

I really hope anyone reading who has relatives with LDs aren't greatly offended and disturbed by this false equivalence.

This.

I'm not offended, as I said up thread my DS has ASD and ADHD and an anxiety disorder. People with learning disabilities, no matter what those are, aren't immune from committing appalling activities or crimes. There is often a feeling that everyone with a disability is an absolute angel. People who have disabilities are just the same as able bodied people. Some are lovely, some aren't and there is a whole spectrum in between.

Nobody is saying ALL people with LDs are dangerous, however THIS ONE IS. He took a knife to his father’s throat - anyone saying ‘oh it’s a butter knife’ is spectacularly missing the point.

He is an aggressive person who will push his way into protected spaces and leave notes about how he wants to harm people.

How are you defending this? I mean, it’s great that you would see him as no threat and all, but would you really risk it? Because virtue signalling aside, I don’t believe you for a second

So because he has an LD, he can be violent and threatening?

So we established you have no issue with the exclusion if he was a violent cross dresser.

But he is a violent cross dresser who has LD which means he isn’t able to control his impulses. The poster who mentioned Southport was right. That bloke had ND.

Perhaps you would explain to everyone why the wellbeing of the wedding guests is far less important than him being violent and threatening?

Nobody is denying he had a LD but his disability clearly needs to be managed. Are you saying you would attend a wedding with someone who could well turn nasty and put a knife to your throat? Because there is virtue signalling and totally taking the piss

I was just about to say the exact same thing!

Doesn't matter if it was a butter knife, pen knife or any bloody kitchen utensil. Used in that manner as a threat can do both psychological and physical damage.

It’s disturbing behaviour and should not be tolerated. LD or not.

Try not to be so obtuse, she's not embarrassed, she's scared of the consequences of his awful behaviour and of the effect that would have on all the people celebrating her wedding.

No answer to this @Gloriia ?

No it isn't, it is highly relevant. Imagine for a moment that the Southport killer had had sensible, firm and kind intervention in his life by people who had some idea of how dangerous he could potentially be. Imagine further that the people who could have done that were not tied up in ropes of worrying about appearances re: racism, treatment of people with autism and various other 'protected' characteristics. Three little girls might not be dead and several others could be growing up without having to cope with the trauma of what happened to them. what does it take to make people like you understand something of what is being discussed here? Again and again we hear these dreadful stories of people in great difficulties being just left to harm and yes, kill other who should have been safe, and the families who should have been helped but are left distraught and full of unwarranted guilt.

And this is what it comes down to.

You are more concerned about hurty feelings and offense than safeguarding the well being of a vulnerable person with learning difficulties and everyone around them because you are too chicken shit to risk assess and have difficult but necessary conversation in a sensible way.

Your priorities are screwed.

The vulnerable person is the most let down of all when we do this. You are avoiding something that would ultimately protect them.

Virtue signalling is harming those it is claiming to help because the people doing it have zero understanding and comprehension of the reality of some people.

I agree!

Interestingly the parents of the Southport killer clearly excused his warning signs. He is ND so presumably he can’t be held responsible for his actions either?

I'm 'chicken shit', I'm a 'flying monkey', 'lalala' 'racist' 'hurty feelings'? Seriously? You are very antagonistic in your debating style aren't you?

My 'priorities' are not screwed. The op's parents should have been considered when the wedding was being planned. You said your mil fumed over your wedding, but that is not relevant. Maybe you need to have a chat with her and find some closure?

Parents count when it comes to weddings. This whole situation should've been managed better imo.

Are you actually accusing OTHERS of being antagonistic? Fuck me, I have seen everything now!

You are projecting how you would feel as a parent of the bride or groom, to the point of excusing the potentially dangerous outcome of his behaviour.

I have asked before but can you please explain how you would handle his behaviour, given that he refuses respite care?