Why do we put animals out of their misery but let humans suffer?

[Freshton]

A relative is currently dying a slow and horrible death from terminal cancer. In palliative phase and last few days now as can't swallow or take any liquids.

It's truly opened my eyes. I had no idea how medieval things were still when it comes to death. I've been truly horrified at what people are expected to endure in their final weeks and what their relatives have to witness.

I can't understand why we put animals to sleep to spare them suffering but humans still have to deal with this slow and undignified end.

I've never been much in favour of assisted dying as not had to think about it but after seeing what I've seen, I really hope something can change. I'll be haunted for the rest of my life by what I've seen in last few weeks.

We really need to stop assuming elderly people can’t experience clinical depression as a result of poor care instead of interpreting these expressions as a settled wish to die right now.

Religion still plays a big part in it.The Catholic Church in particular in Scotland.
Also the buffer zones round abortion clinics needed to be implemented to stop religious zealots to stop harassing women during stressful time in their private lives.

This ^

When I first started nursing, elderly people were allowed to die from their illnesses. Palliative care involved decent doses of morphine based pain relief and sedation and they basically slept their lives away. They weren't prescribed antibiotics for a serious chest infection and their general condition and quality of life was taken into consideration when being assessed for active treatment. Relatives were more realistic about death and didn't threaten staff into treatment.

Now, thanks to Shipman, every doctor is terrified of 'signing anyone off' and prescribing large enough doses to ensure effective pain relief, even if this results in death as a side effect of the drugs. Every illness, infection and elderly disability complication is treated and the last breath is dragged out of everyone. Many relatives insist upon active treatment. The Daily Mail campaigned for the abolishment of the Liverpool Care Pathway, which was allegedly being misused in hospitals. Death management is a poison chalice and no one wants to be associated with it. Hardly anyone can get hospice care due to lack of places and the strange government lack of direct funding model.

So, we have Shipman and The Daily Mail to thank. Not to mention the inability of people to accept that people die, which comes from emotional and social immaturity and putting themselves and their own fear of grief before their loved one's care and management.

Clinical depression is often present, but still doesn't always account for the existential wish to be out of the situation they're in.

Please give an example? That is not why it failed. It failed because unelected lords (including 26 bishops) made a list of questions and amendments longer than War and Peace in order to block it by running out of time.

I’d prefer more focus on end of life care and sedation. I’d like to be able to sign something to say doctors can give me whatever drugs necessary to make sure I’m pain free and sedated even if it shortens my life.

How much do you think it costs to keep someone alive against their will? An average mental health bed (NHS) is around £3.5-4k a week (double that if they have to go into a private ward). Then there's the medication, additional costs for any therapy. They may not be able to work due to their mental health, so the cost of benefits +++

The cost of a safe and comparably peaceful death for someone who has no quality of life - who has capacity to make their own life / death decisions (mental illness is not always the same as lacking capacity), is much less.

Or do you expect the person to use an often violent and painful method, that will likely traumatise others and could disrupt the economy (for example people who jump in front of trains). It's all very well saying you have the choice at anytime, but many people don't.

They promised that a judge would have to approve it. This was a key safeguarding selling point that was replaced with multidisciplinary panels.

The House of Lords had so many questions because the bill was so poor. They were doing their job.

Absolutely. They’re now even talking about assisted dying for babies. It’s horrifying.

You're obviously living somewhere else, so no, you can't choose in Great Britain. A assisted-dying bill was recently defeated in Scotland, and a similar one failed in England and Wales. You could travel elsewhere to do it, but by the time you are bed-ridden and doubly incontinent, this is not feasible.

I'm theoretically in favour of assisted-dying for the terminally-ill, who choose it for themselves, but looking at what is happening in Canada makes me pause for thought.

It's the legal implications- animals have no money or possessions to leave- so it's completely different. Also remember owners have their pets/ animals put down not only because they are ill or hurt beyond mending, but also because they don't want the trouble or expense of looking after them.

Some of the questions that you say were the lords "doing their job"

• Should men be forced to take a pregnancy test before having an assisted death?
• If you've left the country in the last year, should that affect your right to have an assisted death?
• Should everyone considering an assisted death be forced to see a geriatrician, regardless of if they're 20 or 80?

I could go on. They were filibustering. That is all.

We have such a weird attitude to death in the UK. If someone is suffering and is able to document their wishes for their death ahead of time then whats the issue? Why shouldnt someone be allowed to avoid a horrible death?
The trauma on patients and their families is absolutely horrific, to watch someone slowly die gasping for air and in pain. We draw the process out far too much because doctors feel they are forced to and sometimes family cant let go.

I said exactly the same thing when my dad was dying recently. It was horrific, but thankfully only a few days where he was really unwell.

Whilst I agree i would like people to have access to a dignified pain free death, Im not sure comparisons with animals is quite right.

Whilst we might look and think we give pets a dignified end, we dont really need to safeguard animals in the same way, we arent about to inherit from them, we dont get thier consent about anything really, we dont have to worry that they are doing it under coercion or because they think they are a burden. They dont know that many people balance the cost of treating them/quality of life/ success in quite a different way. We also allow healthy animals to be slaughtered for meat.

I know we would put safeguards in place but getting those right is a tricky subject and its important to be able to discuss them and point out issues.

My OH was set against the recent assisted dying bill in the Scottish parliament.
Last week we had to have our lovely old cat PTS as he'd lost the use of his legs and become incontinent.
I asked OH his thoughts regarding assisted dying for a relative who was in the same position.
I'm still waiting for his answer.

There was a recent post on the Elderly Parents board from an OP whose relative had a catastrophic stroke and was now bed-ridden, unable to communicate, doubly incontinent, unable to swallow and having hallucinations. The nurses were peg-feeding the relative. The post was about being charged for their care but it made me curious about available options in those circumstances.

I found information about using an 'Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment' declaration which could legally include refusing tube feeding, refusing resuscitation and refusing antibiotics.

Even the very proscriptive version of assisted dying approved by the House of Commons has been talked out by opponents in the House of Lords (which I believe to be unconstitutional). The vast majority of obections came from religious members of the HOL. No safeguards would ever be enough for these people.

The scaremongering about sick and disabled people being coerced into requesting assisted dying by their relatives out of pure self interest because they want the inheritance or don't want to care for their relative is ridiculous. I'm sure these people do exist but their motives would become clear during the vetting process. The decision to prolong the agony of terminally ill people, who have less than six months to live and who genuinely want to end their lives due to excessive pain and suffering, because of anecdotal evidence that this will be massively abused by abusive relations is unacceptable.

I fundamentally disagree with this.

i was 12 when my great grandmother died aged 98.
she had been in a vegetative state pretty for all my sisters and i can remember. Not even remembering her only daughter (but feeling comfortable with her IYSWIM), and her grandchildren.

This woman divorced in 1914, taking her baby with her. Leaving money, diamonds, position. She left because he was a drunk and a gambler, who threatened to throw the baby down the stairs one night.

she was supported by her brother, her mum disowned her, she worked all her life. Then my grand mother married had 4 kids (my mum is the last all within 12 months of each others) then widowed when my mum was 18 months old.
she had to go to work while my great grandmother looked after the kids.
my grandmother quickly became vile and poisonous, but clearly traumatised as being a widow so young with 4 kids, plus who knows the internalised shit she went through as a baby?

so great grandmother was everything. A brave courageous woman who defied society’s norm, who raised her child while working and then raised 4 more.

she spend her old life being a vegetable. I can tell you. We ALL agree she would have hated it. We knew she was my grandmothers crutch and was being kept alive only for her. Not that we have assisted dying in france, but we felt she didnt let herself die.

i do believe it is selfish to keep someone alive for personal gain being emotional or financial. I have already told my family that I choosing to be unplugged or to die whichever state i am in. But i will not suffer nor will i be a vegetable

Watched my dad die, and one of my best friends. We met through our dogs and as I took her dog to visit her in the care home (at 57) every day I often thought if this was her dog, we would have put him out of his misery weeks prior.

The service offered at Dignatas isn’t always the peaceful end we imagine.

I do agree that people should have more choice over the level of awareness they want to have at the end of life and be sedated if that’s what they want.

I agree, when my beloved cats were put to sleep, it was peaceful and dignified and painless, with the person who loved them most by their side. Everything id want for myself. The difficulty for me is other people would have to be willing to do it. And that’s too much of a burden to put on someone.

I totally agree. I watched my husband die for a week, in the grand age of 34. It's traumatic and no one could do anything. He was dying either way, he just had to suffer through the last days until his last breath. If the death certificate said an earlier date, it wouldn't change the outcome. He was gone, the calendar date just changed and his suffering was prolonged. Utterly stupid!

I totally believe in 'one day earlier is better than one day too late'. Doctors can make decisions on not providing further care as there's no point to it, so why can't they help people die. They are already doing it by actively opting out from caring further.

A combination of the fact that those deciding can afford very good end of life care. And for some religion.
The idea end of life care can suddenly improve and be marvellous for all is living in cloud cuckoo land.
But those making the decisions don’t live in the world of the majority. So have no clue.

@AmberTigerEyes do you live outside the U.K.?

Suicide is illegal in the U.K. and if you attempt it but are unsuccessful you can be legally restrained to prevent you from trying again. This is regardless of how much the person is suffering or what their reasons are.

If is also illegal to supply or attempt to procure most of the drugs that would lead to a peaceful end of life.

My mum finished her life in hospital after 55 years if being handicapped with MS. She was 90% blind, deaf, bed bound,, permanent catheter & nappies, couldnt swallow, was fed with a plastic spoon which made her choke. Occasionally whispered something lucid, like “please let me go”
but most of the time looked into the distance crying. Things went slowly downhill, then Drs wanted an intervention to investigate a potential cancer…
(I am not joking.)
She died of organ failure & pneumonia
I will kill myself before I am forced to die like this