Andy Burnham - how can this be allowed?

[Boopybop]

I know that there is a long way to go over the coming weeks, with by-elections and leadership challenges. But fundamentally - how can it be right that a man who was not even a candidate in the General Election, was therefore not voted for in the General Election - become Prime Minister? Effectively, the people of Makerfield are selecting the country’s new Prime Minister (as it is pretty obvious that AB would win a leadership contest).

This feels wholly undemocratic in every way.

AIBU - Andy Burnham has every right to become PM

AINBU - it is not right that a by-election in Makerfield can determine who the next Prime Minister will be

Well I dont know about you but most people vote for the party not the person.

and going through the democratic process you would have the choice, if you were a constituent eligible to vote in Makerfield to not vote, to vote for Burnham or another person running

that is not undemocratic

questionable in many peoples eyes but its not undemocratic

It would not be fucking hilarious!

Long haul for AB? He's been around the world and back again at least twice as part of his oft thwarted political ambitions. Long haul is a packet of crisps and a coke in Economy for him.

You know, just because someone doesn't perform well when being interrogated, or doesn't perform well when speaking in public, doesn't mean they are a bad or ineffective leader.

Yes, same.

Andy Burnham has presumably known the rules about who can be the Labour Party leader for quite a while. If he had ambitions in that area he had the choice to stand in the last General Election. He seems to want to have his cake and eat it, and the last thing the country needs is yet another self-serving ambitious PM.

I’d feel differently if there happened to be a by-election because of illness or another genuine reason. But for someone to stand aside “for” AB seems an example of jobs for the boys.

Also, it doesn’t seem a great advertisement for the Labour Party if they don’t believe a single one of their current sitting MPs is up to the top job, does it?

I'm in Makerfield and not happy that Josh Simons is giving up on us.

As many people have pointed out, you don’t fully understand how the political system works (for good or ill).

None of us chose the current Prime Minister in any direct sense. He’s solely Prime Minister because he is leader of the majority party in the House of Commons. The only people who directly elected him were his own constituents (to be their MP), and the Labour Party members (to be their leader).

I’m a Makerfield constituent and it’s scary. Reform took 24 out of 25 seats in the recent local election.

I suppose your Tommy Robinson example is a bit different to Andy Burnham because he has been an MP previously and run for the leadership and been a Mayor and made a good job of that ( so I’ve read and heard anyway. I don’t know myself)
A person like Tommy Robinson doesn’t have this particular background, so there would be more criticism.
I understand why people are upset and think it’s bad and all the rest , but compared to many other people he does have a long political background and knowledge of how it works and is clearly ambitious enough to want another go at being the PM. It is his last chance isn’t it. I can’t see it going that well, but he certainly seems a bit more credible than some of the others in the frame.
I like the sound of Al Carns myself.
It’s sad it’s all this infighting though. Not that much different than the conservatives were for years.

Perhaps Josh thinks a Burnham led Labour Party might actually serve your interests better?

On Al Carns, someone who is his constituent told me he’s a decent chap and listens thoughtfully and without prejudice. They were quite shocked having previously met a Labour London mp who wouldn’t entertain any discussions that went against her ‘script’.

all the Labour supporters saying this balling and part of the system didn’t seem to be saying that when the tories were swapping out!

I’m surprised Keir isn’t making a bigger deal of the growth figures as, whilst not brilliant, are significantly better than expected. Focus on the economy and they may get somewhere. Sadly, I don’t think AB is going to do anything for the economy

AB is NOT deemed a god by all mancs 😅

Having met him in a professional capacity a few times I believe hes a decent and informed Mayor but certainly no god!! He had a chance at denton and gorton but in the small time since then the landscape has shifted notably against labour

I am a lifelong Labour voter. I've voted Labour in every single local and general election.

If I lived in Makerfield I'd be furious about this. The arrogance is off the charts. I don't think Starmer should go anyway.

I think for the first time in my life, I would spoil my ballot.

That is a significant bit of information. Oh dear Labour what have you done. again.

all the Labour supporters saying this balling and part of the system didn’t seem to be saying that when the tories were swapping out!

I don't think the Tories did this, so it's not comparable. There certainly are people of all political stripes who want to directly elect the PM and don't like the constituency and party doing it but that's hardly unreasonable? It's not my preference but it's a common political model.

Mind you, if we're speculating, some of the people voting that OP is NBU are only unhappy because it's Labour and they're worried Burnham will be more popular than Starmer. Political partisanship exists!

I agree that it is a bit unsavoury. I've nothing against Andy Burnham and in pretty much any other circumstances I'd be backing him all the way, and I can't quite believe I'm saying this as I think they're a bunch of bastards, but a tiny part of me wouldn't mind if Reform did win the seat.

It's clear that Andy Burnham doesn't actually care about being MP for Makerfield. He would just be using it as the means to the end of becoming PM. So if I were in that constituency and had voted in the Labour MP they've got, I'd be a bit peeved at being expected to vote for this other chap just so he can fulfil his personal ambition. I'd feel like my vote was being taken for granted, and might well rail against that.

100% this!

I think what will happen is that Starmer will go and will be replaced - maybe by Burnham, perhaps someone else. The population will then say "We didn't vote for this person as PM" and want to call a general election. Then follows another few months of inertia where nothing is progressed because they are all focussed on saving their own skins.

By the way on a GE ballot paper you do put the your cross against the candidate's name. There party is named as well, but the prominent info you mark against is a name.

I believe given their recent local successes Reform will win this seat anyway.

I hope he doesn’t win the seat, he’s a horrible man.

None of us chose the current Prime Minister in any direct sense. He’s solely Prime Minister because he is leader of the majority party in the House of Commons.

He or she is PM because the sovereign is advised that he or she is the person who can, or is most likely to, command a majority in the House of Commons. That is the crucial point. Normally that would be the leader of the majority party, but need not be.

I think leaders' debates on TV are partly to blame for this idea that we vote for a particular leader when we vote for a local MP.

How would he be seen in Manchester if he didn't win the seat and just stayed on as mayor?
I don't see how this is anything to do with the good of the country (or Makerfield/Manchester), it's just all about what is best for Andy Burnham.

If he came out and said, I'd like to finish my term as mayor, but would be very interested in leading the party into the next election, then he would have my vote.

I think Keir should stay on as leader, with a view of perhaps stepping aside before the next election. Anything else is just playing into the hands of Reform.

Labour will lose the seat to Reform. The whole thing will end up at a level of farce to make the revolving door of Tory leaders look uneventful by comparison. The country is basically ungovernable at this stage, thanks to a moronic public that is set off at a moment's notice by the Daily Mail and social media, and venal politicians who only care about their own careers. I expect we are seeing the end days of democracy.