Angela Rayner's tax affairs

[Ihateboris]

I was a few days late submitting my Tax Return due to being in hospital last year and as result I was charged £100 late filing penalty.

AIBU to think that Angela Rayner should have to pay interest and penalties for underpayment of Stamp Duty. This makes me so fucking angry.

It is not an “attack”. AR hired a fancy KC to argue her case with HMRC which has not been tested in court. Sometimes the law is unclear. That is the legal system as it is.

It is perfectly fair enough to point out the man on the street has not got the means to pay up £40000 whether technically actually due or not, nor to hire a fancy KC to get them off with HMRC!

So you're still suggesting that HMRC didn't apply it's usual rules and regs just because the subject is AR, correct? That's quite an allegation.

No, incorrect @pointythings - I make no allegations against HMRC.

I simply read the points of law on the Dan Neidle website.

To me the most salient point is:

“The higher-rates-for-additional-dwellings regime is a mess in numerous respects, and this is far from the only time we’ve seen it produce results which appear unfair.”

Now in a rationale world a senior politician who this has happened to would say the law is a mess in this regard and I will make it my mission to ensure it is amended in Parliament to allow for severely disabled children trusts and severely disabled adult trust.

The reality is that AR is probably too scared to touch the hornet’s nest that has been the whole saga in case it is thrown back at her in any shape or form? Or is she going to do something about it?

So you're just moving the goalposts then. AR has been cleared of wrongdoing by HMRC, but that isn't good enough. She must now immediately change tax law in order to be acceptable. Never mind everything else that is going on in government, if she doesn't start shouting about this, it's proof that she's a wrong 'un. I can't even.

The SDLT legislation is absolutely awful. I hate dealing with it and to be honest so do a lot of tax advisors.

Whenever I get an SDLT question my heart sinks.

I suspect if AR was to campaign to try and change it she'd be accused of campaigning for loopholes for her mates, or some such nonsense.

Dan Neidle

"we can't assess whether HMRC acted correctly".

He can also not assess whether HMRC acted incorrectly

Angela Rayner has been cleared and HMRC regards the matter as closed.

@pointythings - not sure why you keep trying to misrepresent my perfectly reasonable posts? What is your agenda here? Note my very specific allusion to hornet’s nest.

Perhaps if we didn't have people like Farage, Nice, the Sunaks doing everything they can to avoid paying their fair share, tax wouldn't be so complicated and mistakes would be harder to make.

If a lay person has to pay for specialist advice on common events, then the system is broken and flawed.

Rayner has been cleared by HMRC, anyone unable to understand this is either very stupid, or working to an agenda.

I want the focus on reform leaders who have broken the rules and tried to screw the country over deliberately.

i can’t stand the hypocritical woman

but I do believe it wasn’t deliberate tax avoidance

but common sense in her position she should of checked and double checked
I think her avoidance was in trying to do it on the cheap taking basic advice when it’s very complex and it back fired

I don't have an agenda. I'm just tired of the constant smearing of AR and Labour women in general. Being cleared by HMRC would be good enough for anyone else - but not for AR. This should be done now, but the endless smears continue, on Mumsnet and elsewhere. It's exhausting. It's pathetic. It's been going on since the GE. It's as if some people can't handle having anyone other than the Tories in power.

“Rayner has been cleared by HMRC, anyone unable to understand this is either very stupid, or working to an agenda.”

Err? Dan Neidle was head of tax at Clifford Chance - one of the largest and most profitable international law firms in the world.

I highly doubt he is “thick”.

So what is his agenda please?

Dan Neidle is a person with a website he wants people to visit

He is not the HMRC who have closed the case.

@pointythings - I am not smearing AR at all.

There is literally nothing wrong in the belief that Angela Rayner has had a tough life and should draw on her own experience of where the system has screwed her personally, to make things better for others, in a tangible way?
For example, improve housing, maternity services etc, perhaps this tax point and the treatment of disabled children.

What exactly is wrong with that?

As far as I can tell. Dan Neidle highlights specific areas of tax and the system which are creating anomalies, for all, including politicians.
If we are all getting screwed by the system, then surely politicians should try and improve the system? And have a good story to tell where it is personal experience they can draw on?

How exactly is that smearing?

@Araminta1003 what could convince you to accept HMRC's decision?

@Smeuse - yes, obviously Dan Neidle is not the HMRC.
Neither is Martin Lewis.
Yet some people like to see and understand what they have to say on the matter.
Myself included, nothing wrong with it. It is interesting pertinent stuff. Not least the interpretation of the case law.

I trust HMRC and the closure of the case. However, the fact that Dan Neidle says he has not seen actual evidence does leave a niggling feeling.

Did Sunak disclose all his relevant tax affairs voluntarily in the end or not? I cannot remember.

Sunak provided a summary when he was PM

Is that what you want Rayner to do?

Or is that what Neidle suggests?

You keep saying 'people on the right' but Dan Neidle is a Labour Party member and recently a member of its senior disciplinary body, the NCC (2022 - 2025). Neidle has also worked as an election agent for two prominent Labour women;

His pitch for the role in 2022 -

“I’ve been a member of the Labour Party for 35 years and have been a ward secretary, ward chair and CLP Secretary. More recently, I’ve been the agent for two MPs [Stella Creasy and Emily Thornberry] and dozens of local councillors, and helped turn seats that were once marginal into Labour strongholds. I’ve practised law for 22 years and have advised candidates, MPs and campaign groups on electoral law, successfully fighting off attempts by other parties to use the legal system against us. I know the Labour Party rulebook.”

Ummmm you re on the 'right and you're quick enough to dive in... against Rayner.....

..... i note you don't have anything to say about Farage and his financial shenanigans.

I suspect Dan Neidle doesn't have any time for Rayner, he asks for documentation but provides none of his own for his allegations.

These days Right means what? Tory or Blue Labour or even Reform?

Seems to be a little confusion in the matter.

Are you suggesting that the HMRC are corrupt?

Ummmm you re on the 'right and you're quick enough to dive in... against Rayner.....

I quite like Wes Streeting if that helps.

i note you don't have anything to say about Farage and his financial shenanigans

The title of this thread is 'Angela Rayner's tax affairs'.

On the possibility that Farage bought his long-term girlfriend a house - that's not at all unusual in my experience, as long as the house is a gift. This is what wealthy men in subsequent relationships often do - therefore from a tax perspective he probably hasn't done anything wrong. I am closely associated with two men who bought their long-term partners houses of similar value - intending to leave the bulk of their estate to their adult children from previous relationships (no children with their new/current partner as in Farage's case - who I believe has four adult children).

I suspect Dan Neidle doesn't have any time for Rayner

Yesterday you mentioned Nadhim Zahawi - it was Neidle's investigation which exposed Zahawi's underpayment of tax.

he asks for documentation but provides none of his own for his allegations

He has Sir Laurie Magnus' report - Magnus concluded that Rayner had breached the ministerial code.

From Angela Rayner's resignation letter to Keir Starmer;

I deeply regret my decision to not seek additional specialist tax advice given both my position as Housing Secretary and my complex family arrangements. I take full responsibility for this error.

There’s tax avoidance and tax avoidance. Avoidance where you put money into your isa is fine. That’s acting within the spirit of the law. Avoiding tax in the way Tice did is very much not getting the spirit of the law. Was there any economic reason for arranging his tax affairs as he did other than tax avoidance? I doubt it, and this is the sort of thing HMRC will take into consideration when they decide whether an offence has been undertaken.

As you say she resigned.... the 'code is quite specific, though not all recent PMs have accepted such out comes....

HMRC accept her explanation and have treated it as a mistake and not carelessness.
I don't think you quite grasp that HMRC do not expect an individual to be a tax expert nor do they insist a lay person seek advice from several sources.

LM's report is not evidence, HMRC do not look at the ministerial code when deciding these matters.

DN is implying "favouritism" at HMRC, he needs to produce evidence for this, perhaps he has internal HMRC emails......

What's baffling is people's inability to understand the words 'cleared' and 'exonerated'. It's highly likely that OP has been treated badly by HMRC. That doesn't mean AR has had special treatment or that HMRC play favourites. Coupled with the endless AR slating (see also the thread about the smear piece written by Allison Pearson), this suggests that there is an agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with who has or has not paid what.