AIBU to refuse extra hours when most of the pay goes in tax?

[oldFoolMe]

Would you work extra hours if you had to pay 67% tax on it? Thats without additional childcare, or commuting costs.

Society has historically been run by people doing stuff for free. Women mainly. They’ve provided free childcare, elderly care, volunteered and been expected to ‘go that extra mile’.

Now we all know that we have had the piss taken out of us we are stopping which is a good thing. Pay people properly for doing their jobs, stop expecting free stuff. Workers should do their hours, that’s their contract and when you’re taxed the way we are now why would you go over and above for a little more. I would also like to point out that doing it for promotion can backfire as you’re seen as too good at your job and the promotion goes to Henry who started 3 minutes ago and is amazing.

Isn’t it just! But you have to otherwise the extra tax is unjustifiably.

@Theolittle Oh believe you me the NHS has had many hours free out of me since I started work and still does, late finishes, staying to help a coleague with a difficult case, phone calls on non working days. I am talking about the attempts to book people in for extra activities that are separate to my normal job and voluntary but paid. I have no desire to make my tax situation complicated so do not do any of these extras for payment. The risk of falling foul of the pensions tax madness means I am happy to steer clear

This was done year after year by previous governments. It has to be a stealth tax because noone wants to pay taxes (but they want better public services). They can’t win!

Nail on the head. Successive governments/chancellors simply fail to appreciate human behavior.

Goes right back to Brown's day when he introduced tax reductions for small limited companies which made them so that they paid A LOT less tax than someone trading as a sole trader. His Paymaster General, Dawn Primarolo, said in Parliament that she didn't think sole traders would convert into limited companies "just to save tax". That shows how deluded politicians can be. Of course, history shows hundreds of thousands of sole traders, such as window cleaners, dog walkers, tradesmen etc converted themselves to limited companies. Who'd have thought it??

I think IF public services improved then people would accept higher taxes. Trouble is that public services are deteriorating but people are paying more taxes, hence why they're annoyed and why politicians are losing trust.

Slavery is having no choices - being on no or so little money you do nothing but work and would starve if you stopped.

Is that your lifestyle?

The problem is the costs of public services are going up massively because of people living longer with complex health needs. Also the lack of investment due to austerity and privatisation. Some will say immigration costs add to this, others will say it’s been a net positive. And income has reduced due to Brexit. Perfect storm

Last year I paid £120K tax on £301K gross pay. Sod that. This year I won't be working anything like as hard.

“Slavery is having no choices - being on no or so little money you do nothing but work and would starve if you stopped.
Is that your lifestyle?”

@JumpingPumpkin - well there was a time when my 4 DC were young when i worked up to 14 hours a day including most weekends and slept about 3 hours a night and felt I had to. And used to frequently sleep in the office on the floor whilst pregnant. So yes, I have done the slave to the job entirely, putting myself and my unborn DC at risk. There is no way in hell am I advising any of my own girls to do anything like this espeically if they cannot even keep a majority of the earnings for themselves.

When I had two kids in childcare, I worked out that after tax and childcare i only earned 12.50 on Fridays. So I dropped it. Not worth it.

I don’t think people would accept higher taxes for better public services because working people are already paying a lot if tax. Additionally many are funding their own services eg private healthcare, private dental, private school so they aren’t using some services at all.

Working people rightly expect a certain standard of living for going to work everyday, putting their children in childcare, paying for private services. They are taxed enough, society isn’t working, changes need to be made. The answer is not to just tax people more.

So which services do you want to cut even further as an alternative to more tax

Adult/children’s social care?
education? Higher tuition fees for uni?
NHS - emergency care? Other?
Highways? Potholes?
Defense?
Police and Criminal Justice System?
State Pension (which keeps going up as more pensioners and triple lock)
Benefits? Which benefits?
Fire brigade?
Waste Collection?

That sounds horrific. I'm really sad that you felt you had no other choice. It must be really unpleasant to have no control over your life like that. Did you have little formal education and were unable to get a job with good employment conditions?

”Did you have little formal education and were unable to get a job with good employment conditions”

No @JumpingPumpkin - the opposite. Grammar school education mainly and elite uni and preprogrammed to join the hamster wheel from infancy. Probably much like a lot of doctors.
The point is work no longer pays for the sacrifices people are asked to make. Spending is going to be on pension health and social care and public services for the young and the working are deteriorating, whilst their tax burden is increasing.
It does not even “pay” to put a lot of money into a pension anymore because if you drop dead early due to a stressful job, the taxman now takes a lot of it via inheritance tax too (new changes).

Hence the natural conclusion for many is to step off the hamster wheel. And a lot of people will be retiring earlier than planned because of said changes to pension rules too. They are simply burnt out working for others.
The majority of people who do high paid jobs work really hard and are under immense stress and pressure and responsibility that is never left behind until they retire early.

If your workplace has a reorganisation and no longer needs you they will drop you like a stone. Family first. Your job does not care about you.

I’m in the higher tax bracket and happy to pay. I also do overtime and know that half of that will go to the tax man. But I need to make up some money for my annual train fare and contribute to my DD’s university living expenses, as well as pay for various other debts, so I have to do it.

Yes I can see this. My public sector workplace got taken over by a 3rd party private supplier that does not value experience and knowledge. It is easier for them if you don’t point out the things that might go wrong, or are going wrong, so to get along you just smile and nod. They think anyone can do the job, and better if people just follow the process and don’t point out the risks and flaws. Customers and staff are numbers not real people. Tick box culture. I suspect this is part of the problem with productivity in the UK. Maybe I’m just getting old but can’t wait to retire and get out of it - I never used to feel like this!

Oh, so not like a slave at all then.

It's unbelievably insulting for high earners to complain about 'having' to retire early. I assume you think low earners work hard or have stressful lives?

You could step off the hamster wheel and get a less stressful lower paid job.

It's genuinely crazy how people who are better off somehow don't realise it.

@JumpingPumpkin - I already stepped off a few years ago after being a slave from the age of 22 until 41. I had to, it is called burn out and is very real, for many people. When you are in it, you often suffer from Stockholm syndrome.
I do now work part time and I could go back and earn more and go back to 120% again - but the disincentive in the tax system is there. I thought I would go back as my youngest started year 7 in September, but I won’t now. There is no financial incentive to do it.

Many of my colleagues did the 16 hour days until their early 50s, sometimes mid 50s. Mostly they literally have to stop due to health reasons. Often have to take a couple of years out entirely just to recover. Some then do go back to part time work or volunteer. But it is very rare for anyone to survive until their mid 60s.

And @JumpingPumpkin - I think it is really insulting to not acknowledge that plenty of medics (who are “high” earners on paper) completely burnt out during Covid and have had to endure more of the same since. Which is a very stressful working environment, increased tax burden, impossible demands.

There really is a breaking point for many humans and getting a slightly higher salary and then asked to hand over 60% plus is THE breaking point for many. Same applies to many lawyers in the criminal justice system - or why do you think the judicial system is on its knees/so slow etc now? Same with the NHS. There is a reason for it.

A “slightly” higher salary - ha!

You have no idea how hard many low earners work

And clearly you have no idea how much many “higher” earners work either! How much responsibility they have, how many hours they work over many many years etc and what sacrifices they make to hand over 60% of their salary.

As a £40k earner I made a lot of sacrifices to make sure the job got done it’s not reserved to £100k earners

Another one here working out how to avoid paying tax. I earn £60k full time. So £8k is taxed at 40% and at £57k my employer raises pension contribution to 7.5% instead of 5.2% (doesn’t affect final pension).
So I am going to 0.8 of full time (4 days). I’ll lose significantly less than the 20% you’d expect.