To expect the elderly and other vulnerable people to be able to navigate online NHS app?

[Allonthesametrain]

Well just this. Fortunately as family we are able to help and it's heartbreaking when your elderly parents get a message and don't know to respond because it takes you to an app.

The letter for an appt can come after the online confirmation so that guarantee isn't there. For our older generation, the worry of making sure on time, leaving extra early, getting whatever it takes to get there.

As I said, fortunately as family we are there to help but it makes me worry about those who don't have support. I know SS will most likely be involved but how much due to their caseload, no matter how much they care and are amazing.

Fully aware of aĺl issues of funding but there really needs to be a better way than to send a text to an 87 year old to then go to an app which becomes overwhelming.

I'm wondering how that works when the networks go down due to excessive demand

Didn't that happen in London on 7/7?

I'm pretty tech savvy. I receive notifications from gp by text. But my eyesight is such that I can no longer easily read small text on a phone screen.

There must be many people who have, or had, the tech skills and are still mentally capable but who are no longer physically capable of reading a screen or using a keyboard or touchscreen.

Trouble is, the people getting paid to do this were likely to be a) about to go up to Big School from Nursery at that time or b) weren't in the country at that point (free market, get overseas companies to punt out the 'solutions' to the people in a)).

Not everyone who is old has those things. Some do, but not all of us.

This is a problem. A very real one. Those designing such ideas and novelties clearly did not risk assess them for use for all patients. They would have failed on an equality basis as being not appropriate for old and vulnerable people.

Many elderly people cannot navigate apps and so on. This and moving everything from local surgeries into bigger ‘hubs’. It all assumes the person can drive to get to them. Or that the elderly person will always have someone to drive them and not try to travel under their own steam. My mums local surgery closed. The new ‘hub’ meant a journey of two buses across town. Not progress in my book.

Hospitals are no better. Ansaphones which ask people to press this number or that number or which department do you want etc. So elderly unfriendly.

My own experience shows how mad some of it is. I went to see a consultant. The place was empty. I went to the window where there was a receptionist. Staring down. There was an arrow pointing to a machine. It said put your details in here. So I tried. The machine said ‘talk to the receptionist’. So I did. She said ‘okay’ take a seat. How mad is all that. How much did the machine cost ?

There will be people out there who do fall through the cracks. Because they were used to going to a place locally. Where they could speak to someone. Who knew them. They just won’t go. And will end up in hospital instead.

My 80 yr old mum manages very well day to day totally without tech as she is in an area full of elderly people and the local businesses understand this. She uses buses and they still have paper timetables if you ask in office at bus station. She goes into main station to book a train ticket. Some things cost more eg I think she can only get a 1yr not 3 year railcard in person. Post office gives cash as banks have shut. Iceland has a system similar to online shopping where you pick your shopping in store and they deliver free to your house (10% off on a Tuesday for pensioners) Local swimming pool she has membership of you can book slot in person or by phone.
If a business won’t accommodate her she goes elsewhere. Her neighbour late 80s was all in a tizzy as bank was saying she needed an app so she has swapped her substantial monies to a building society. The small local building societies still seem to operate the nice helpful women at counter model so they get the business.
She also is very willing to ask and speak to people.
She’s only just started with some health issues so navigating nhs hospital appointments is a new thing. Her gp is still very much old school ring up or go in. She drops a slip off for a repeat prescription.

Not everyone old does but if you are for example a stand alone clinic dealing with cataracts then 100% of your customers have sight problems so it’s not rocket science they may prefer speaking to a human to live chat they can’t read due to their poor eyesight.

Well, it depends on who you consider elderly, and it depends how IT savvy people are.

Some younger people might struggle as well,

I manage just fine. 🤷‍♀️

What do you class as 'old' though?
In my experience, people are pretty fit and with-it until their early 80s, then things start to go downhill fast from then.

My mother in her 80's manages her mobile phone with my and my sisters help. But she lives in retirement apartments with many who are in their 80's 90's some nearly 100. Most don't have smart phones or computers or even satellite TV. so moving to all online, apps and texts leaves them at risk of missing messages, appointments and doctor/hospital visits.

A fiercely independent 98 year old relative has just discovered they can no longer access certain services as their GP surgery has gone totally 'BOT'. They have managed to navigate making an appointment to get a phone call but when they tried to order certain items from their prescription, the BOT required all sorts of information in addition to the drug name which relative couldn't remember and which they can't read off their repeat prescription as they are severely sight impaired/blind. The only alternative seems to be the NHS app, which of course they can't use because they can't see. If there is another alternative, it's not clear from the GP's website (i looked) and there seems to be no obvious way to speak to a person - which is what they always used to do! They don't make it easy for older/vulnerable people - who generally use the medical services frequently due to their age/ vulnerability.

My personal favourite is that the eye infirmary will not speak to patients under any circumstances. Everything is to be done on line.

I am going blind. How I will be able to manage that when my sight fucks off for good is beyond me.

(The hospital said I would then have to ask my ‘carer’. What carer?! Not all blind people have, need or want care!)

Yanbu but I don't understand why it isn't just an opt out system. I certainly do not want or need paper letters. I sometimes get letters telling me about appointments weeks after I've already received an app notification and confirmed the appointment.

The app is generally quite easy though. The only barrier I guess could be the two factor authentication which is a bit of a hassle as it means my phone doesn't remember the password

Is there audio on some apps?

Is there audio on some apps?

How would you know if you can't read the screen?

Voice operated?
https://www.rnib.org.uk/living-with-sight-loss/assistive-aids-and-technology/phones-and-tablets/a-guide-to-apple-devices-for-people-with-sight-loss/

I’m going to swerve away from health to similar problems with other necessary suppliers. My mother is a very able 90, but her hearing is poor. I have power of attorney and having faced total ignorance of what that enables too many times, now pretend to be her when engaging with people.
British Gas have her registered as a vulnerable person - but make it very difficult to speak to anyone with intelligible English, so much so that even I, a very tech savvy person, finds difficult to navigate.
I could list many other companies.
In my mind this is all representative of reducing costs to make even more money, bugger the customer. And the NHS should be ashamed of themselves.

What app?

They text you a link to the the hospital website with your appointment details on it.

I feel the same way about the telephone only Hearing Centre.

Some companies try and help with large print letters, but to be honest, for many people with visual impairments, the size of text doesn’t help. I have increasing blind spots. The letters could be 5 foot tall and I still would have gaps in my vision.

Voice operated?

Again, how do you know if you can't read the screen?

The eye hospital send me a link via text which opens up the hospital website, where you have to input your details (name, DOB) to open up the “letter” with your appointment details on it.

Bloody woman is moonlighting at our surgery too. It took me three 20minute calls with her to eventually get through to a human receptionist who dealt with my issue in 3 minutes.

YANBU it's not inclusive at all. My DM died last year and couldn't manage tech at all. She'd retired - ironically after a career in the NHS - while all digital stuff was in its infancy and really didn't have the incentive to use it.

She tried to learn how to use email and a basic mobile and had some success but lack of frequent use meant she often forgot what she'd learned. TBH I'm the same with an online records system at work which I use very infrequently.

Yes that's her point.

"I'm alright Jack" - Ignorance at it's absolute finest