To expect the elderly and other vulnerable people to be able to navigate online NHS app?

[Allonthesametrain]

Well just this. Fortunately as family we are able to help and it's heartbreaking when your elderly parents get a message and don't know to respond because it takes you to an app.

The letter for an appt can come after the online confirmation so that guarantee isn't there. For our older generation, the worry of making sure on time, leaving extra early, getting whatever it takes to get there.

As I said, fortunately as family we are there to help but it makes me worry about those who don't have support. I know SS will most likely be involved but how much due to their caseload, no matter how much they care and are amazing.

Fully aware of aĺl issues of funding but there really needs to be a better way than to send a text to an 87 year old to then go to an app which becomes overwhelming.

Of course some 87-year-olds will be able to do it but frankly, given that statistically they are supposed to be dead, it amazes me that there isn't more sympathy for those who can't do it

You said it yourself, @emeraldroulette - statistically they're supposed to be dead, so it follows that to some they're merely an inconvenience because they're not, and can therefore be disregarded

And then some wondered why the Assisted Dying Bill lost support as what was actually being planned became clearer

I was visiting my mum and dad 84 and 86 when he was released from hospital having had a leg amputated after a stent went wrong leaving him with gangrene. My parents were traumatised and scared. He was still on intravenous antibiotics with a cannula in his arm. The ambulance brought him home and a nurse turned up within about an hour. The first thing she asked for was the internet password. My father replied what do you mean. I then explained that they didn't have internet. All of his post op care antibiotics and readouts were supposed to be transmitted via internet. The nurse said what am I supposed to do I said you better call an ambulance and get him taken back to hospital. There isn't any Wi-Fi there isn't any internet there isn't even phone reception properly where they live in rural Norfolk. Luckily I ran BT that afternoon and they pulled out all the stops to get them fitted up with internet within 48 hours. Apparently they'd asked him in hospital if he'd got internet at home and he'd said he had said no. The nurses came in three or maybe four times a day for the first week and had to do all the readings over their phone they had to keep going outside the house walking to the top of the hill holding the phones in the air. Now to some extent I do blame my parents their absolute refusal to have it use any new tech whilst understandable has made all our lives immeasurably harder. However with their age, memory problems and severe arthritis meaning even using mobile phones was hard I blame the Norfolk NHS far more for that incident.

As an NHS RN I find computer/technical/online communications from trust to patient's verge on discriminatory to
many patients needing to utilise nhs services. The assumption that older/elderly people will suss out how to read their apps/emails or have someone who will sort it for them is disgraceful.

That's like saying if you pay for my shoes I'll leave the house

If someone can't use a phone then obviously fair enough, and many can't. But someone in their 60s who has chosen to not use technology is actively chosing to not participate in that aspect of society. It hasn't just sprung up on us, apps have been around for nearly 20 years. No ones telling you what to do with it but if you just refuse to use something that is now a key part of society that's really on you if you can't then participate in all aspects.

They don’t have to navigate it if they don’t want to. They can contact the surgery and update their contact preferences

Although dh is only 66 he struggles with online stuff due to chronic fatigue. Irony is before he had to give up work he was an IT professional. So no active choosing not to use modern technology but ill health making it difficult for him to do so.

My 69 year old friend has been given an NHS audiology appointment at Specsavers in the town centre which has been pedestrianized He cant walk because he has been waiting seven years for a knee replacement Cant take his own car because its pedestrianized and cant park. Have booked taxi but they might not be able to take him right to the door as the barrier might be up (Colchester) No joined up thinking in this shithole of a country.

Shoes cant be hacked by cyber criminals. You dont have to do two factor authentification or show your shoes your passport before you put them on.
Ridiculous comparison. Is someone going to come round and fix a persons phone if it gets hacked because they have been forced to use an app or is the phone owner going to have to deal with the consequences of someone elses decision. How quickly some have forgotten the Post Office scandal. And do you not think this scandal may have put ppl off

Shoes cant be hacked by cyber criminals. You dont have to do two factor authentification or show your shoes your passport before you put them on.
Ridiculous comparison. Is someone going to come round and fix a persons phone if it gets hacked because they have been forced to use an app or is the phone owner going to have to deal with the consequences of someone elses decision. How quickly some have forgotten the Post Office scandal. And do you not think this scandal may have put ppl off

I’ve never had the app and never been asked to have the app. We get letters and the occasional phone call on our landline for a last minute change (eg cancellation appointment, reschedule). I didn’t give GP our mobile numbers when registering because our signal is so poor at home and didn’t want them relying on it working. We now have functioning internet (thanks Elon), so can run mobiles through that, but haven’t updated GP. No one has ever badgered us for it - it has been relatively easy to avoid the drama. And yes, we live in a town, not in remote and rural location!

She wasn’t the only one in the can’t use app line. The modelling was anticipating majority would just download and use app (think it was so incident control knew who was ‘alive’) but for various reasons lots of people caught up in the ‘bombing’ couldn’t do it. That’s why they run scenarios like this to hopefully learn that what sounds straightforward isn’t accessible to many in reality. Good on her for volunteering to take part.

We have Emma too since last week. I got a sinking gut feeling when I heard it.

“She” couldn’t understand my postcode despite me saying it 5 times so DP called on my behalf and kept saying “Human!” as the answer to every question.

I was rolling my eyes saying “Fgs, that’s not going to work!” but it did! He handed it over to me and I arranged my appointment with the friendly receptionist in less than half a minute.

There are all sorts of family situations.
Not all family members are reliable about communication, in touch with elderly relatives, or trustworthy enough to have access to medical information.

My own DM relies completely on one of my siblings wrt tech. It's quite a burden for that sibling.

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but the expectation of the organisers that most people would still have working phones, with unsmashed cameras, no hand injuries and plenty of phone signal/data, after a bombing is utterly ridiculous!

I'm wondering how that works when the networks go down due to excessive demand, because the explosion has taken out the tower or because it's been restricted to enable emergency services to communicate.

My LO is elderly and has sight problems, so how she is supposed to manage an app I do not know.

Being old isn’t a reason to not learn new skills. I agree that there should be help for people to learn though. Maybe at GP surgeries. I’m old and I’d happily volunteer to help people.

I think the way we are sleepwalking into the most appalling customer service is an absolute disgrace in the UK.
It started around covid and has continued. When is the last time anyone called somewhere for help and spoke to a human without navigating a complex series of options? Or managed to find a phone number in the first place?
My 89-year-old mum does not want to go on Live Chat, thanks, but as there is no phone number on the bill, she has no choice but ask me to help.

My parents are in their 90s, and whenever anything needs a mobile number we give mine. I deal with all apps.

Absolutely agree with this. Since covid everything has changed.

I’m assuming that gets factored in but what seemed to have taken them by surprise is just how many people couldn’t access app and that was in a scenario without any real trauma or injuries.
It was as though they had assumed 98% would use app (or whatever percentage have smart phones) but not every did have a phone, knew how to install it, could get it to work etc.
sorry for slightly detailing

I spoke to an older lady at the GP surgery the other day who said that on her state pension the cost of even having a smart phone was beyond her.

It’s disgraceful how the elderly are being marginalised.

The thing is that age comes to us all. And it seems the powers that be haven’t realised this.

My aunt, 96, was an early adopter of tech. Mobile phone, internet, online shopping etc etc. However, in the last couple of years her eyesight has badly deteriorated and her hands are a bit shaky. Although she can still manage a supermarket order, other things, especially when required to input a security code quickly, are no longer possible and her ds has to do it.

One day even the fleetist of thumb teenager is going to hit old age and is going to be peering helplessly at a device because they can’t flippin’ see it.

These are literally the skills I use for my job.

If I can't track down half of my appointments or communications when it's literally my job to set similar stuff up for others - how in blazes is somebody who can't code in four languages, regularly sets up integration with assorted sources, write procedures and protocols and doesn't teach people how to use and interpret them supposed to manage?

Of course being old is a reason to not learn new skills. Arthritis, poor eyesight, memory loss all play their part in the learning of new skills just becoming harder and harder and the willingness to try simply dissipates.when it's just so hard.